40b crash - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-08-2018, 06:05 PM Thread Starter
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40b crash

Well after a few years finally had a bad crash of my 40b.
Currently didn't lose all the fish but some of the older and weaker ones (long story).
Was leaving for work and went to feed the fish (tank was perfect last night and even took some photos)


and there were floaters.


Checked amm/nitrite
Nitrite was 2ppm.. Highest I've ever had.

Ammonia was up as well but since pH is low (<7) wasn't too worried..


Dosed an emergency amount of Seachem Prime. Didn't have time for a massive water change but did pull and replace 15%


Sadly lost my old Chinese Algea eater, a black neon and a red eyed tetra.
I had recently introduced some small Platys from the over flow of them in the 55. not all accounted for nor all of 5 zebras though 4 were there.
Large Pleco I'm "house sitting" was fine. MM platy was fine so far.
I'll miss the golden algae eater the most.. my oldest fish since I re-started..
Acquired it from an estate and it was bone white due to the tank coloration. Was lemony gold for me after acclimating ..



Only change between yesterday and this am is last night I did dose some Met14 but the quantity was way below what most would consider "problematic" 45mL..


Sadly, it probably could have been prevented. Oddly enough last night I heard a few "splashes but assumed the Buenos Aires Tetras were being a bit frisky.
Once it even sounded like one hit the glass. THAT was unusual.



Never checked on it..


Will followup since I, sadly , needed to work and won't be back for hours.
Not sure what spiked it so badly but may need to rethink the Met14 though this has been a "one of" in using it for years..
Filter inlet was mildly restricted w/ moss (stuff is annoying) but flow seemed normal-ish considering..

Can stop at home for lunch and, hopefully, all is re-stabilizing.

Thankful for having Prime handy. Consider it a "must" for everyone.


all told though had 3 recorded Nitrite spikes in 3 different tanks over 3 1/2 years..but always found them to be seemingly rapid onset though hard to judge if not testing daily. So one a year. This has been the most fatal though.
Guess that is lucky



Point is, don't ignore weird things ..
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Last edited by jeffkrol; 08-15-2018 at 08:59 PM. Reason: corrected dose error 45
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-08-2018, 07:31 PM Thread Starter
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Lunchtime. still high Nitrites/Ammonia but fish are handling it OK.
Another 25% water change..


Going over what I did last night and I believe I over-dosed Met14 though it STILL should have been below
what others have done..
In my haste I'm pretty sure I was thinking one chemical not the other..
Looks like I dosed approx 45ml..
Best guess considering gravel ect.. 1.6ml/gallon.
Never exceeded 1ml/gal before.
also how it was added may have lead to a cloud of conc. Met.
May explain the few jumpers last night. I feel bad..
Senior moment...to, hopefully, never be repeated.
Sad thing is doesn't look like the targeted algae was touched. Usually some sign of necrosis will appear next day, and not seeing any.


Fish could probably take it (w/ exceptions, see above) but looks like that may have knocked out my biofilter..
Currently the only hypothesis I can think of..

Now I need to wait..................

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-08-2018, 07:36 PM
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Sorry to hear about the situation - always tough to deal with emotionally. Will be interesting if you can actually verify what happened as it seems odd to me that the tank would spike that high on the Ammonia / Nitrite.


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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-08-2018, 07:52 PM
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If that is what happened I think you are probably right on the money with 45ml essentially killing or severely depressing your biofilter. I've never dosed that high... though I have seen algae take longer than 1 day to really show the damage from h2o2 or met14 before. Might just be my own eyesight though who knows, the ones that turn pink are real easy to see... green to like pale white hair algae can be real difficult for me to see.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-08-2018, 07:56 PM
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I cant imagine nitrites would rise to 2ppm in a day, even if you removed the filters from the tank. I would guess higher than normal chlorine/chloramine from the tap last water change, or maybe forgot to add decholor. Or possibly you've been dosing Prime and the nitrites "released". Filter had to have died at least a few days ago.

I'm sorry for your loss.


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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-08-2018, 08:25 PM
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1 ml per gallon???

1 ml per 10 gal is the recommended excel dose. So 1 ml per 10 gal of metricide is ~1.6x that.


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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-08-2018, 08:36 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback..
As to speed, I've seen them drop in a day.. or so.. so not thinking it was very incremental..though, yes, the possibility exists it was cumulative but tank has not been dosed or anything for weeks. Water changes are not my forte exactly either.
But consider this:
Quote:
https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfis...-to-do.146841/
On 5/16 I added Fluval C4 with media from three other fully cycled tanks. There is a second smaller filter in the tank. Perimeters were consistently 0-0-10. We were planning to go out of town Friday, (graduation, youngest kid got MA) but one platy got sick in 20G and NITRITES .25 appeared in 29 G, while Nitrates went down to 5G. After GV & 50 percent WC nitrites were n0, but went up to .50ppm the next day. We were doing 50 percent water changes three times a day. Nitrites kept going up. We had to leave for NY on 5/22 and returned 58 hours later. The nitrites were 2ppm
When you've seen a completely cloudy tank go clear in under 2 days you start to understand how fast one can wipe out a large bacterial colony..
Knock out one part of the "conveyor" and packages can pile up quicky..
w/ the lights on and wc Met will be pretty much gone ..

to sum it up w/out any way to prove it..
Met14 overdose
Met not diluted
Clogged filter intake (well reduced flow)
Dead fish leaking

Problem

Quote:
Well, after an increadibly slow ammonia build up to 0.5 ppm. (this took about 6 weeks), the ammonia plummeted to zero and nitrites shot up to between 2 and 5 ppm (hard to tell with color cards) in two days.
Wow! Nitrite spike! - Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community

Maybe more versed in conv. cycling will verify..
I'd have to go from 0 to 2ppm in under 16 hours..is a bit of a stretch but I had a very sickly red eye (coumnaris (in partial remission) and old age) that had one foot in the grave as it was. Doubt if it could have taken even a smidge of Nitrites. Certainly coudn't take 2ppm.

Curious to see how long it takes to re-balance.. Might need to move some biomedia from another tank..
Last time I killed a biofilter (CO2 bubbles in a canister) it was accompanied by a bacterial bloom..

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Last edited by jeffkrol; 08-08-2018 at 08:47 PM. Reason: edit
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-08-2018, 08:47 PM
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Whatever the cause I hate to hear it. It sucks when you feel like you're responsible.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-08-2018, 10:00 PM
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Jeff really sorry to hear this.

If it makes you feel any better, you are not alone.

Many years ago when I dosed Excel into a low tech environment, I accidentally knocked over the bottle into the tank. Within minutes the fish were gasping and swimming sideways. I did back to back to back emergency water changes.

Only lost two Bows but it would have been much worse had I not been standing right there.

Monitored the tank closely had a small mini cycle. Partial water changes for about 4 days and things got back to normal.

I'd watch the tank closely, as that was about 4 times the after water change dose, which is already a big dose to begin with.

Good luck and I hope it's just a blip for you.


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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-08-2018, 10:15 PM
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Sorry to hear that. I stopped using glut awhile back for low tech tank maintenance. Better used as a spot treatment in higher concentrations like that. I've done up to 2 mL per gallon with a 50% WC about 15 minutes later. Works good for this purpose. Other than that, no more Seachem Exhale for me. lol
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-08-2018, 10:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burr740 View Post
1 ml per gallon???

1 ml per 10 gal is the recommended excel dose. So 1 ml per 10 gal of metricide is ~1.6x that.
To kill bba in the 55gal 10ml was the first really effective dose.

after a sig. amount of research and OP's knowledge 1ml/gal met14 was not unheard of for algae.
this is for, generally, short term dosing.
not the most scientific ones I found but a general idea:


Quote:
I've found that plants and fish can take quite a large amount of glut with no ill effects.


Been dosing 28 ml per day of undiluted Metricide 14 in my 50gal tank for a number of months now. Tank is 9 months old and heavily planted with about 42 small fish, mainly neons and rasboras. It gets dosed twice a day just before the start of my two split photo periods. Along with daily EI dosing everything appears to be doing great.

The workable tank volume is only about 38 gal, so it works out to about 1.2ml of Excel strengh glut per gallon of tank water. Occasionally I get a couple new fish or plants and they have had no problems with acclimating.
OR
10ml/10gal (40L in the paper)
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...DVApctbChIAY95

HMMM. Reminds me to check the Nerites..

Like I said, the fish that died were "compromised " a bit (red eye was def badly damaged by columnaris and the black tetra had been sort of labored swimming, more correctly "dipped" swimming, for months, though last month w/ the antibiotics it was , sadly, in the best shape in awhile, CAE.. don't know, glut sensitivity??
Pretty sure all in all it was a combination of a few factors, not exactly the glut per-se.Could of , as did 90% of the fish survived it


Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggz View Post
Jeff really sorry to hear this.

If it makes you feel any better, you are not alone.

Many years ago when I dosed Excel into a low tech environment, I accidentally knocked over the bottle into the tank. Within minutes the fish were gasping and swimming sideways. I did back to back to back emergency water changes.

Only lost two Bows but it would have been much worse had I not been standing right there.

Monitored the tank closely had a small mini cycle. Partial water changes for about 4 days and things got back to normal.

I'd watch the tank closely, as that was about 4 times the after water change dose, which is already a big dose to begin with.

Good luck and I hope it's just a blip for you.
Hopefully nitrites will be somewhat down when I get home.. done Prime treatments before. In the past worked well.

biggest worry at this point is "if" the BB was really really hammered, their corpses will start to feed a bact. bloom..
don't need to add insult to injury.


met14 lifespan is short..


Will keep posting till in the clear..

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."

Last edited by jeffkrol; 08-08-2018 at 10:41 PM. Reason: edit
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-08-2018, 11:26 PM Thread Starter
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UPDATE:
Down to .5ppm Nitrites.. Good sign.
All Dainos and Tetras accounted for. One Nerite and one pond snail alive. They were pretty low in this tank anyways..don't really see any "new dead"..

ammonia is the usual (for me).25ppm

Little did they know disaster was about to strike..about 3 hours away..

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."

Last edited by jeffkrol; 08-09-2018 at 12:49 AM. Reason: edit
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-09-2018, 07:19 PM Thread Starter
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Holding at about 0.50 ppm Nitrites for the last 18hrs..

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-11-2018, 03:49 PM Thread Starter
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Closing topic:
Back to "normal" 0 ppm Nitrites.. Perennial 0.25ppm ammonia.

pH 7-ish..

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."
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