EDTA iron after CO2 on from CSM+B - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-15-2018, 01:54 AM Thread Starter
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EDTA iron after CO2 on from CSM+B

So I may order some DPTA iron from GAL, along with a few other things, but figured I would post this question.

My ph is about 7.4 or so with no CO2. I drop about 1 ph with CO2 on. Knowing that the iron stays suspended better at a lower ph I have been dosing my CSM+B after CO2 has been on for about 2 hours (usually working from home...). Is this effective or worthless for me?

Would DPTA plus CSM+B work better, just dosing in the morning and not worrying about ph drop? Also easier and less likely to forget, if this works.

Also, for those of you doing micros daily, and I'm reading in on this, do both forms of iron react with phosphorus? I have been keeping PO4 at about 3.6ppm/ week right now.

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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-15-2018, 02:08 AM
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P wont react with Fe as long as the chelate holds

P at 3-4 ppm per week shouldnt be a problem for anything really.

If you're using edta Fe (csmb) yes its a good idea to dose when the PH is lowest.

6.5 is the upper threshold for edta Fe. That's just where the chelate begins to separate and you start to lose some. It's not like its all gone at 6.6

Note that to all the other micros, edta stays bound at much higher PH levels. Fe is the only real concern.

You can get by dosing earlier when the PH is higher using dtpa. It's threshold is around 7.5.

Adding dtpa along with the csmb would probably be a good idea in your case. Something like a 3:1 ratio to begin with, adjust to more if needed
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-15-2018, 05:04 PM
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If you have CO2 on 24/7 you donít have to worry about EDTA and DPTA specifications. (https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/11...injection.html)


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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-15-2018, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burr740 View Post
P wont react with Fe as long as the chelate holds

P at 3-4 ppm per week shouldnt be a problem for anything really.

If you're using edta Fe (csmb) yes its a good idea to dose when the PH is lowest.

6.5 is the upper threshold for edta Fe. That's just where the chelate begins to separate and you start to lose some. It's not like its all gone at 6.6

Note that to all the other micros, edta stays bound at much higher PH levels. Fe is the only real concern.

You can get by dosing earlier when the PH is higher using dtpa. It's threshold is around 7.5.

Adding dtpa along with the csmb would probably be a good idea in your case. Something like a 3:1 ratio to begin with, adjust to more if needed
So for the 3:1 ratio, to be clear, is that 3 parts CSM+B and one DPTA? So if CSM+B is 1/16 tsp I would want something like a heaping 1/64 DPTA? Or should I still target .2ppm Fe from both on each dose?

I'm working my way through your custom micro thread, still a ton to read/learn!

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Originally Posted by Edward View Post
If you have CO2 on 24/7 you donít have to worry about EDTA and DPTA specifications. (https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/11...injection.html)
Thanks, though I'm not going to be running 24/7.

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Last edited by Darkblade48; 05-16-2018 at 09:47 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-15-2018, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grobbins48 View Post
So for the 3:1 ratio, to be clear, is that 3 parts CSM+B and one DPTA? So if CSM+B is 1/16 tsp I would want something like a heaping 1/64 DPTA? Or should I still target .2ppm Fe from both on each dose?

I'm working my way through your custom micro thread, still a ton to read/learn!
3:1 was just a rough suggestion to use as a starting point.

If you're currently dosing .2 csmb I'd start with an additional .05 or .07 dtpa, or you could do .1

Either way you'll just have to watch how the plants respond and go from there. Might do better with more or less than whatever you start with.

The reason you want to keep csmb higher or at least even with any additional fe is so that the ratio between Fe and some of the other micros doesnt get too far out of whack.

Have you tried just raising csmb?


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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-16-2018, 12:24 AM Thread Starter
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Okay makes sense to me. Thanks for the reply. I have not tried adding more csmb at this point. Ideally I wanted to get out of the habit of putting the micros in around 9 or 10 am and be comfortable doing it first thing when I wake up, pre any CO2. The ph is what had me thinking as to not have all the Fe fall out by lights on/ mid-day.

I also have a thread going on Ca content as my harness is 8, and my water report does not list Ca or Mg specifically. Trying to gather my info and make a decision on what to order/ if I need to place an order.

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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-16-2018, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by burr740 View Post
have you tried just raising csmb?
+2.


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