Fluval G6 Nitrate exchange cart. a test - The Planted Tank Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-28-2018, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 11,698
Fluval G6 Nitrate exchange cart. a test

Well I've really never been able to keep Nitrate levels in check.
Even w/ large (50%) water changes they go up past any considered good level.
In a very short time.. like overnight.
Tank can be strangled in plants and even a low bioload of fish and they are still high..


Hopefully technology to the rescue..
Now regarding the G3 cartrage:
Quote:
Product Description

The Fluval G3 Nitrate Cartridge is for use with the Fluval G3 advanced filter and will remove up to 13000 milligrams of nitrate ion in fresh water aquariums. Nitrate concentration should not exceed 20 mg/L in freshwater aquariums. Planted aquariums require approximately 5 mg/L of nitrate as a source of nitrogen for healthy plant growth. Nitrate is irreversibly trapped and bound and will not leach back into the water. The continuous use of the G3 Nitrate cartridge in aquariums with persistent nitrate problems is an effective solution against nitrate accumulation. If used as a quick solution to reduce elevated nitrate concentrations the cartridge can be removed once levels have normalized and then stored until required.
Well being too cheap to just buy a G3 and not really needing one at this point my thought was to "build" a Nitrate exchange system that one could just plug in every once in awhile, run for a day or 2 and be done w/ it.

Would cut down, though not eliminate, water changes.

So bought a Fluval Nitrate cation exchange cart and proceeded to ponder what the heck to do w/ it.
Was hoping it had a center hole so as to introduce water to the center and push (or pull) it out sideways.
Not how it's designed..
Anyways a few easy PVC "tanks" were envisioned (maybe even an old RO type tank would work.

Next came pondering pumps and flow rates ect
how fast past the resin ect.

Well being really the impatient sort decided to just use my noisy Eheim 2213.
Put the cart top down (bottom is solid, top is a ring of slots) and surrounded it by 1/2 fill of bioballs.
Probably would have preferred a restriction ring around a right side up cart.. but no patience.
Pump feeds from the bottom and hopefully the bioball restriction will help the water flow mostly through the cart..

Cart fit good in the 2213 basket w/ little up/down slop.
OK not the most efficient way of moving water correctly through the cart.. but we will see.
Only planning on a few hours of running.. max 10 mostly due to the hum of the 2213.. Never did solve that one.

1/2 hr and already problems.
Eheim started leaking at the outlet hose.. Oddly past everything but the grey lock ring.
Thought it was just old end on the hose so cut it back.
Still leaked. No cracks ect in the outlet barb that I can see.

Backed off the lock nut to see if I could tell where it was coming from. Stopped leaking.
Never had that before and the unit, except for noise was put away fully working..

anyways in a bucket and away it goes. Tightened the grey lock nut till I felt pressure.. no more than that.
No leak..yet.



Was ready to abandon the timeframe (couldn't be here the whole time)

If I can conclusively drop nitrates some in this time frame I'll be happy.
wish me luck.

Last edited by jeffkrol; 04-29-2018 at 05:45 AM. Reason: edt
jeffkrol is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-28-2018, 01:23 PM
Captain
 
Immortal1's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,298
Sounds interesting - look forward to your results.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Immortal1 is offline  
post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-28-2018, 02:29 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 11,698
Bit of background on Nitrate selective resins..
https://www.watertechonline.com/remo...-ion-exchange/

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."
jeffkrol is offline  
 
post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-29-2018, 12:09 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Maryland Guppy's Avatar
 
PTrader: (15/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Arnold
Posts: 3,684
Some nitrate scavenging resins can dump when over-exposure occurs.
Keep in mind!
Purolite makes a resin that they state will not dump when saturated.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Growing is not that difficult.
Maryland Guppy is offline  
post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-29-2018, 05:32 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 11,698
Should easily be able to treat 150gal b4 hitting saturation point..
Right now it's just treating the 40b...
Makes a good test tank..

Though it doesn't really appear (after 12 hr test) to be doing much the tank looks oddly clearer, but could be my imagination. Certainly not really part of the process.
Noisy filters driving me crazy though..

OPPs just noticed it's the G6 one not g3 ..
will remove 24000mg of Nitrate..

Nothing to report except usual annoyance w/ Nitrate tests kits..
Salifert has the dumbest flask. Has a big plastic hump in the middle and semi-concave bottom.. From middle to edges looking down is pretty uneven in color..
another project .. looking for a flat bottomed glass container.. same size.

Suppose I could build it out of plex..
due to surface tension edges will always be denser but at least central area will be FLAT..
Do "these people" really even think about these things.. or is it just me?

Rough area of the inc. tank is .821 sq inches
1" i.d dia tube is equiv w/ a 4% "error"

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."

Last edited by Darkblade48; 04-30-2018 at 12:07 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
jeffkrol is offline  
post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-30-2018, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 11,698
As of this am no noticeable change in Nitrate levels..
Pretty much a bust.
No idea why though.

will recharge cart later today and see where I'll go from there.
Saline bath for 24hrs..
Last night I did re-configure the filter to, theoretically , get better flow through the resin.
sure was heavier than when it started.

sad..

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."
jeffkrol is offline  
post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-06-2018, 03:01 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 11,698
DOUBLING DOWN:
Picked up a second cartridge.

Will run both (recharged 1st one ..hopefully) in the Eheim..

In case anyone was wondering .. got the new carts for $10 each.
Nitrate selective resins run $300-$400 per square foot..

Eventually, if no good way to deal w/ the carts will pull them apart and measure resin content..

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."
jeffkrol is offline  
post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-06-2018, 03:54 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Maryland Guppy's Avatar
 
PTrader: (15/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Arnold
Posts: 3,684
There is an online seller in the US that sells by the liter.
Cannot remember their name, $75 -$80 for the liter.
They called it a sample for lab/R&D in their drop down menu.

Will search favorites and see if I still have it.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Growing is not that difficult.
Maryland Guppy is offline  
post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-06-2018, 04:53 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 11,698
Blue Life USA Nitrate FX 500 mL NO3 Nitrate Removal Resin FAST FREE USA SHIPPING
$50..............

Yea.. not sure if any can really "clean" an "old tank". Nitrates are just produced too fast due to the bio-accumulation.. Well my theory at least..
Would need to be run continuously and pref. w/ a newer tank..

That wasn't exactly the idea of the test. It was to see how fast one could drop N levels in a few days..
would probably take that sq ft..

55 is set for the "pothos test"...

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."
jeffkrol is offline  
post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-06-2018, 05:05 PM
Captain
 
Immortal1's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,298
Bummer. Was hoping for a "magic bullet".


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Immortal1 is offline  
post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-06-2018, 05:09 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 11,698
Pretty sure it would work fine w/ $300 worth of resin..
Magic bullets are expensive..

Quote:
39,600 ppm capacity (All Nitrate System)

Contains 1 cubic foot of nitrate specific resin capable of removing up to 39,600 ppm of nitrates/nitrites between regeneration cycles
19,800 ppm/16,000 grain capacity (1/2 & 1/2 System)

Contains 1/2 cubic feet of nitrate specific resin capable of removing up to 19,800 ppm of nitrates/nitrites and 1/2 cubic feet high capacity softening resin capable of removing 16,000 grains of hardness between regeneration cycles
One subjective thing, and not sure if it"s "Real" or not but water clarity seems better..

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."

Last edited by jeffkrol; 05-06-2018 at 05:30 PM. Reason: edit
jeffkrol is offline  
post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-06-2018, 05:44 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
Edward's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: at home
Posts: 1,358
I donít know for sure but the way I understand it, it removes nitrate and sulfate and replaces it with lots of chloride. Not the worst option for fish only aquariums, but not so good for plants, also water conductivity TDS will increase significantly.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Edward is offline  
post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-06-2018, 06:05 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 11,698
opps yes.. thought you said sodium..


First:
Quote:
In contrast, nitrate-selective resins actually are de-selective for multivalent ions, like sulfate and arsenate. These resins have higher affinities for nitrates than all other common ions found in drinking water, including sulfates.

The relative order of affinity for some common ions found in drinking water for nitrate-selective resins is: Perchlorate >>> Nitrate > Sulfate > Arsenate > Chloride > Bicarbonate.
Will get to the Chloride part.
https://scialert.net/fulltextmobile/...s.2010.551.555
https://www.pthorticulture.com/en/tr...plant-culture/
http://www.smart-fertilizer.com/articles/chloride

Thanks for bringing it up though..
worth considering..
Rather the plants suffered than the fish..

Quote:
In Rhode Island, the
Department of Environmental Management
(DEM) has set acceptable chloride
concentration exposure limits for freshwater
organisms at 860 ppm
to prevent acute
(immediate) exposure effects and at 230 ppm
to prevent chronic (long-term) exposure effects.
For drinking water, DEM has set a maximum
contaminant level of 250 ppm chloride, which is
the point at which water starts to taste salty.
http://cels.uri.edu/docslink/ww/wate.../Chlorides.pdf

Besides this was never a replacement for water changes..just at best, to minimize them.

not sure how replacing one anion w/ another increases conductivity though..

In the nothing is new dept.. 2005

http://www.koiphen.com/forums/archiv...p/t-31929.html

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."

Last edited by jeffkrol; 05-06-2018 at 07:05 PM. Reason: edit
jeffkrol is offline  
post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-07-2018, 04:46 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 11,698
OK, killed the trial. 2 carts did nothing in particular..
May be they both saturated that fast .

will check it by testing Nitrate levels in the Eheim disconnected from the tank.
Theoretically 2 should be able to zero nitrates in the gallon(?) of water left in the filter IF it does anything.
If it doesn't can fairly reasonably assume they are saturated..
That it doesn't work at all would be too far of a stretch.


Shouldn't take too long either. 24hr max.

Afterwords, time to pull the carts apart and see how much resin is in each.
Quote:
24000 milligrams of nitrate ion in fresh water aquarium
Should have been capable of removing 48000 mg..

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."
jeffkrol is offline  
post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-07-2018, 04:57 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
Edward's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: at home
Posts: 1,358
What if the NO3 test kit is detecting also organic NO3 and the resin can exchange only inorganic NO3. Also, the resin exchange rate is flow dependent, should be lower than small RO unit.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Edward is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome