Ozone lowering ORP values - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-26-2018, 02:41 AM Thread Starter
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Ozone lowering ORP values

Hi all,
My tank is a 150x50x50cm tank, with a 10mm glass. It is partially planted and with Amazonian fauna, including wild discus. I have two canisters (Eheim 2215 and 2217) inject CO2, regular fertilization using EI methods and a Chirinos Dr sterilizer. Recently I bought an ORP meter, e pen like one, and realized that the OPR values are lower than the recommended (i.e. 200mv to 400mv máximum). The values barely pass the 100mv. As the aquarium is well populated the organic matter tends to accumulate and lower ORP values make difficult to degrade it, especially in the substrate.
Because this I add a Weipro ET-50 ozonizer, that from between 5 to 50mg/l. Despite this, the ORP does not goes up, and sometimes seem to lower it. I tested the tap water, and the ORP meter gives values above 400mv, but after adding the ozonizer the values goes down instead to up.
Does anyone have an idea about why this may be happening?
Thank you all!
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-29-2018, 02:23 PM
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Likely that the ORP meter is showing an incorrect value. It was my understanding that ORP meters took some time to settle on the correct value.

CO2 is a good oxidizer. That ozone thingamabob is likely degassing the CO2 (water can hold more CO2 then O2) causing ORP to drop. To test this theory measure pH change.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-29-2018, 05:15 PM
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Since the 1970s, I’ve been reading about aquarium water column Oxidation Reduction Potential ORP, unfortunately, no one could find any link to success.


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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-30-2018, 03:59 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply.
The pH is low, 6.5-6.7, and the CO2 levels are relatively high as it was shown by my two drop checkers.
It seems that the Ozonizer is nos displacing the CO2. In any case, if both CO2 and oxygen are well oxidizers, then both should maintain the ORP values higher.
The only thing that I can imagine is that the ozone is oxidizing the accumulated organic matter and is consumed in the process maintaining the ORP low, but if so, after all or most of it were oxidizing, ORP should rise.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-30-2018, 05:11 AM
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I like to think of ORP as another tool in the arsenal, rather then a simple solution to a complicated problem.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-31-2018, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cozzuol View Post
I tested the tap water, and the ORP meter gives values above 400mv, but after adding the ozonizer the values goes down instead of up.
That is an indication of organics in the tap water.

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Originally Posted by cozzuol View Post
In any case, if both CO2 and oxygen are well oxidizers, then both should maintain the ORP values higher.
Not until there are organic contaminants present.

Once the organics are gone the ORP will go up. More CO2, O2 and O3 more organics will break down causing higher bacterial activity causing higher O2 demand pushing O2 concentration down. ORP is a measure of O2. Also, ORP level can be viewed as the level of bacterial activity.


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Last edited by Edward; 03-31-2018 at 02:40 PM. Reason: .
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-07-2018, 05:25 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you for your reply.
I will test the ozone generator with distilled water. In it ORP must rise after add ozone, true?
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-29-2018, 07:51 PM Thread Starter
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Following the topic.
I get a pH-ORP controller to be used with my CO2 and ozonizer. It is a pH-803 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Redox-Meter.../dp/B00432U9HK).
After installing it, the ORP values start to rise slowly. I set it to stop the ozone injection after 350mv. After a couple days it reaches this point and stops the ozonizer but the ORP continue to rise. Today, after 3 days without ozone injection it shows 550mv, which is supposedly too high.
Despite the values, neither fishes nor invertebrates show any sign of stress. I try to measure the ORP simultaneously with the ORP meter pen, and the values still stay below 150mv...
Supposedly the ORP probe is already calibrated and test to place it in different places of the aquarium and different depths. I calibrate the pH probe with the solutions provided with the device. I set the pH limit as 6.6, being lower than that it tops the CO2 injection.
So, I am afraid that neither the pen nor the controller are giving me accurate ORP values.
Any suggestion? I failed to find an explanation about this in any place...

Thank you in advance
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-29-2018, 08:42 PM
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The ORP value continues to rise because O3 is still dissolved in the liquid.
Are you saying the ORP readings on the ORP Controller and the ORP meter pen are not the same? Values 350 mV and 150 mV?


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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-30-2018, 04:58 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward View Post
The ORP value continues to rise because O3 is still dissolved in the liquid.
Are you saying the ORP readings on the ORP Controller and the ORP meter pen are not the same? Values 350 mV and 150 mV?
Yes, the values in both instruments are completely different. The controller probe is close to the substrate (simple sand in this area of the aquarium) and, of course, the pen can only read the surface.
As far I know, ozone has a short life after released, it is still possible it is present after 3 days since the the ozone generator is off?

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The ORP value continues to rise because O3 is still dissolved in the liquid.
Are you saying the ORP readings on the ORP Controller and the ORP meter pen are not the same? Values 350 mV and 150 mV?
And the controller reading is above 500mv, oscillating between 530 and 560mv.
The pen is never above 150mv, but topically is closer to 100mv

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Last edited by Darkblade48; 05-01-2018 at 01:07 PM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-03-2018, 11:47 AM Thread Starter
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Update.
My ORP value now is, for many hours, above 600mv (603 right now). No signs of fish, invertebrates or plant distress. Is this making any sense for you? Supposedly this values should be lethal for a few minutes...
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-08-2018, 03:33 PM
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I believe that there are two measurements of ORP. ORPm and ORPh. It is also my understanding that ORPh reads higher then ORPm, and that ORPm is the measurement value used in most literature.

I've had a tank going for years with ORP > 600. *shrugs shoulders*

ORP is beyond my comprehension. I resort to using it as a simple tool to show the level of oxidizers. If it stays within a reasonable variance then life is good. If it deviates in either direction by a larger amount, something needs attention.
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-01-2018, 02:58 AM Thread Starter
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Well, it comes out that the ORP probe was uncalibrated. I get a new one tha get mesures around 300mv.
A week or so after install it, readings start to rise again, but I note that cleaning the electrode recado gs get again at normal levels. It se em that if the probe is not clean or with algae in it the readings are not real.
Someone note this?

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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-31-2018, 05:41 PM
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Interesting observations @aja31
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Originally Posted by aja31 View Post
So this is something that may or may not interest anyone, but i've found it quite interesting and fun to track. My Apex system has an ORP probe that constantly monitors the ORP of the tank. I read through multiple articles on ORP and what it should be in a healthy aquarium, and basically came to the conclusion that no one actually knows and every tank is different enough that you can't assign it a single range/number. However, being able to track the trends and changes has proven much more useful to me. Below is my ORP chart over the last few days with all the important events labeled.

When the CO2 turns on in the morning it spikes up 50 mV in about an hour. This is a good indication that my CO2 is on and at the right level. My UV steralizer turns on for 4 hours, starting an hour after the CO2 comes on, you can see this as it causes the ORP to decrease by 50 mV, bringing it back down to where it was before. As soon as the UV turns off it starts to climb back up. When the CO2 turns off for the night the ORP dips back down, indicating i'm getting good aeration and offgassing. My dosing pumps dose my macros/micros on alternating days an hour before the CO2 comes on. You can see this on the chart as well. Micros cause a 10 mV dip in the ORP and macros cause a 10 mV jump. Good indication that the correct amount of ferts are dosed and that the dosing pump is working correctly. The one thing that I did not expect was cleaning my filters caused a massive drop in the ORP. Nearly a 125 mV drop by cleaning out the filters and replacing my purigen. CO2 levels were mostly unaffected by the filter cleaning so it was not a CO2 outgassing that caused the drop. I know this because my tank pH stayed the same during the filter cleaning.

I have no idea what number/range my ORP "should" be at, but it is a very nice quick overview of my aquariums health. Once I have fish I will be able to tell feeding time and be immediately warned of any deaths by changes in the ORP. No more having something die and polluting the tank for 3 days before I find it. The ORP will let me know in a few hours tops.
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ORP has been continually climbing as I add medication. It's up to 430 which is the high end of where reef keepers hold it. It will be interesting to see if the antibiotics drive it above 500.
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I did a 50% water change today, added in some carbon to remove any residual medicine, and will run my UV for the next 48 hours straight to kill anything left floating in the water. Interestingly enough I think the bacteria was keeping my ORP lower. I mentioned it raised when I started the antibiotics, but even after the water change adding the carbon, and turning on the UV it has not dropped back down that much.
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