Which plant deficiency is this? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-08-2018, 01:33 PM Thread Starter
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My ADA 60P is 2 month old and I'm running it with weekly 50% water changes, CO2, ADA amazonia soil and I'm dosing ADA Neutral K and ADA Mineral 5 ml/day.

My Cuba in the corners are showing signs of deficiencies, how could that be? Is that sign of lack of iron or what?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...MwTW5DSFBiUVZn

The stem plants in the rear have at the same time shown signs of micro deficiencies with white leaves and pot holes, I then increased the dosage to the current 5 ml/day and the plants somewhat seem to have recovered, but not quite the Cuba as seen in the first link.

Full tank view:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...96UG9DUDVlSHpJ
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-09-2018, 09:10 AM
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Since soil is 2 months old, could be macro or micro deficiency. And since your dosing the ADA's which are what? aimed pps pro? I'd jump on N n P, you seem to be doin rest of maintenance right.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-09-2018, 03:12 PM
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Hi @eggaD,

First of all welcome to TPT; that is a good looking tank you have there!

Do you have any information on water parameters? Specifically pH, dKH, dGH. NO3 ppm?

If it is new leaves that are effected it is likely an immobile nutrient such as iron, calcium, sulfur, manganese, or zinc. I tried to find a listing of the nutrients is ADA Green Brightly Mineral but could not find it....are they possibly listed on the bottle?

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Last edited by Seattle_Aquarist; 02-09-2018 at 03:33 PM. Reason: ..
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-12-2018, 07:58 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrungOut View Post
Since soil is 2 months old, could be macro or micro deficiency. And since your dosing the ADA's which are what? aimed pps pro? I'd jump on N n P, you seem to be doin rest of maintenance right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist View Post
Do you have any information on water parameters? Specifically pH, dKH, dGH. NO3 ppm?

If it is new leaves that are effected it is likely an immobile nutrient such as iron, calcium, sulfur, manganese, or zinc. I tried to find a listing of the nutrients is ADA Green Brightly Mineral but could not find it....are they possibly listed on the bottle?
My own thinking after talking to the aquarium shop is that it might be Nitrogen.

I sadly have no idea of the values pH, dKH, dGH. NO3 ppm, however I'm blowing as much CO2 into the tank as possible. Drop checker is on the upper scale of greenish, towards yellow. Fish are fine though.

It's the old leaves that turn first white from the tip and now brown. New leaves are OK.

ADA Mineral is micro elements.
ADA Neutral K is potassium.

ADA doesn't list the contents in detail, I guess it would be too easy for common plebs making their own MUCH cheaper alternatives.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-12-2018, 04:12 PM
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Hi @eggaD,

First of all since the newest leaves looks good but the recently matured and older leaves seem to be effected that would point to one of the mobile nutrients. Mobile nutrients are plant nutrients that the plant has the ability to move from older leaves to new leaves for continued growth. The common mobile nutrients are: nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus, magnesium, chloride, and a couple other micro-nutrients. If nitrogen was the issue then the new growth would be stunted but the new leaves do not appear to be undersized and since you are using Aquasoil that is only 2 months old there should be plenty of nitrogen in your tank. I downloaded your picture, blew it way, way up so I could see some leaf details and what I saw is the leaves that are just starting to show symptoms have chlorosis (yellowing) along the leaf margins with just the area along the main leaf vein remaining green. This seems to progress to necrosis (death) of the leaf tissue. These symptoms could be either potassium or magnesium, since you are already dosing potassium I would suspect magnesium.

Head to your local drugstore or grocery and pick up some plain, cheapest on the shelf, Epsom Salt (MgSO4*7H2O). Add 1/2 teaspoon to your ADA 60P which will add about 5 ppm of Mg to your tank. When you do water changes add 1/32 teaspoon of Epsom Salt per 3 liters of new water. Continue to dose any other supplements as your have been, no changes. Now the hard part, wait for two weeks! The existing leaves will not change, watch the new leaves as they emerge and mature. What you should see is the new leaves are greener and as the new leaves mature they should not develop the necrosis and die. Get back with us in a couple of weeks and let us know how things are progressing! Hope this helps -Roy

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-13-2018, 07:04 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for our explanation Roy, I'll try this and come back with a report.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-26-2018, 09:09 AM Thread Starter
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@Seattle_Aquarist

I took this photo recently, it also show deficiency on the Rotala. Is it related to the Magnesium?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lD...AAEoWO_hEh4jMZ

Btw, I've added the epsom salt a few days ago. Let's see what happens.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-26-2018, 03:58 PM
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Hi @eggaD,

I took your most recent picture, enlarged it and cropped out areas this is what I spotted:

Picture 1 from lower left corner of photo; please describe what you see at the leaf tips and leaf edges of the newer leaves where the arrows point


Picture 2 from just below the Ludwigia just left of center; describe the leaf where the arrow is pointing

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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-26-2018, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
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The leaves seem pretty normal to me, the tips are just formed like that I guess. The only thing in many of the plants is that the veins are quite clear and visible. The tank is two month old now and ADA recommend adding Iron at 2-3 month age, if it's for selling more products or for a genuine purpose I don't know.

Either way, here are more pictures (shot during evening so the leaves are pointing upwards).
I don't know what you are looking for so I shot a few extras.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1AI...rfcchmLIvVqgG4
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1L4...vogcfUW98ZVlKN
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1R7...p8eTi5tEPt6wRH
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vb...uzDN2dUUpYk_Yc
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1D9...acyHSVAPrJ8fk9
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qx...wr4yDJoGciSv9t
https://drive.google.com/open?id=13B...Rt-hQk7snArgtH
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Pv...YprPg_0njGRbVk
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1AA...ectOp_eEK-l9kz
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WA...51v2HVkdMf8VVh

Btw, thread algae has started to occur now. Removing with tooth brush what I can, hopefully it will go away with time and regular dosing and water changes.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-26-2018, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist View Post
Hi @eggaD,

I took your most recent picture, enlarged it and cropped out areas this is what I spotted:

Picture 1 from lower left corner of photo; please describe what you see at the leaf tips and leaf edges of the newer leaves where the arrows point


Picture 2 from just below the Ludwigia just left of center; describe the leaf where the arrow is pointing
Quote:
Originally Posted by eggaD View Post
@Seattle_Aquarist

The leaves seem pretty normal to me, the tips are just formed like that I guess. The only thing in many of the plants is that the veins are quite clear and visible. The tank is two month old now and ADA recommend adding Iron at 2-3 month age, if it's for selling more products or for a genuine purpose I don't know.

Either way, here are more pictures (shot during evening so the leaves are pointing upwards).
I don't know what you are looking for so I shot a few extras.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1AI...rfcchmLIvVqgG4
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1L4...vogcfUW98ZVlKN
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1R7...p8eTi5tEPt6wRH
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vb...uzDN2dUUpYk_Yc
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1D9...acyHSVAPrJ8fk9
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qx...wr4yDJoGciSv9t
https://drive.google.com/open?id=13B...Rt-hQk7snArgtH
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Pv...YprPg_0njGRbVk
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1AA...ectOp_eEK-l9kz
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WA...51v2HVkdMf8VVh

Btw, thread algae has started to occur now. Removing with tooth brush what I can, hopefully it will go away with time and regular dosing and water changes.
Hi @eggaD,

Here is what I see in the pictures.

In the first picture the leaf tip is 'hooking' downwards. Also if you look at the newly emerging leaves in the first picture the leaf margins are a dark green.

In the second picture I see light green interveinal areas with darker veins, if you look at the Ludwigia it shows the same darker veins and lighter interveinal areas.

The 'hooking' leaf tips indicate a possible calcium deficiency as is the dark green leaf margins when it occurs on new leaves. Since you are using RO water with some tap water there may not be sufficient calcium available to the plants. You may have a high dGH but dGH does not tell us how much of each of the various divalent metals (calcium, magnesium, iron, manganese) comprise that dGH....just the total. It is important to note that ADA Amazonia contains absolutely no calcium. I afraid I do not know what calcium supplements are available in Sweden.

The second picture with the interveinal chlorosis on the newer leaves is likely an iron deficiency. If it were a nitrogen deficiency the entire plant would be showing chlorosis (yellowing). An iron deficiency, because iron is an immobile nutrient, shows up first on the newer leaves typically as interveinal chlorosis as we see in your picture. I would suggest increasing the dosing of your micro-nutrients and then watch the next couple of sets of new leaves as they emerge. The existing leaves will not change. The new leaves should look more uniformly green when the condition is corrected.

Hope this helps you get started!
-Roy

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-27-2018, 05:38 AM Thread Starter
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No, I'm not using RO water. Just tap water with 50% water change once a week.

Values from my water treatment plant:

dGH = 3
Iron = 0,1 mg/L
Manganese = 0,05 mg/L
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-27-2018, 02:29 PM
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Hi @eggaD,

I apologize, I thought you were doing RO water but obviously with water that soft you don't need RO. I have very soft water here in Seattle as well (snow melt) with [email protected] and [email protected] so I have to add minerals to the water or plant deficiencies run rampant. I use a product called Seachem Equilibrium which contains calcium, magnesium, potassium, and a little iron and manganese. I dose sufficient to increase my hardness buy about 2.0 dGH (about 1 teaspoon per 10 U.S. gallons) and when I do water changes I add 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of new water added. As for iron, if your pH is 7.0 or below you can use almost any aquarium iron supplement. If your tank is alkaline I suggest either a DTPA chleated based iron iron fertilizer or a Ferrous gluconate based iron fertilizer.

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-29-2018, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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I'm thinking about quitting with the ADA fertilizers and switching to another brand. Now I'm getting what looks like Magnesium deficiencies even when I'm dosing the Epsom salt according to your recommendations.

Look at this picture
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WZ...v6k4iwTZ6vRPrR
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-29-2018, 05:38 PM
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Hi @eggaD,

I think adding some iron to your dosing will resolve the problem, correct me if I am wrong but it looks like the new leaves as they emerge show interveinal chlorosis (green leaf veins, remainder of leaf yellowish)? The ADA Mineral should be supplying the iron and magnesium that the tank requires. The recommended dose is 1 ml per 20 liters of tank volume.....so 3 ml for a 60P. But it also states that 2X - 3X the 'standard' dose may be necessary in a heavy planted aquarium. Let's try this for the next two weeks: discontinue the Epsom Salt and increase the dosing of ADA Mineral to 10 ml daily. If the problem is iron related we should see improvement in a couple of weeks.


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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-29-2018, 06:02 PM Thread Starter
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You really got the hang of things, thanks for keeping up.

I'll do as you say, and I've actually started dosing ADA Iron a few weeks ago so I'm a bit surprised this issue came up. I'm also having thoughts on the dosing, ADA recommend 1/3 WC per week and I've been doing 1/2 WC. Perhaps I'm diluting my tank, but instead I'm always cutting the levels in half every week according to schoolbook EI to prevent any levels rising above normal.

Thread algae is also becoming a real problem, and I've doing mid-week WC for the past few weeks to hinder the growth, together with a toothbrush trying to clean the plants. My moss was heavily infested so I removed it and put in the dark for 4 days. It reduced the infestation at least.
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