The Custom Micro Mix Thread - Page 73 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1081 of 1375 (permalink) Old 10-22-2018, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by burr740 View Post
@Greggz it is possible your mac varie has too much built up within the plant. It would probably benefit from a week or two of zero. Other stuff probably would not appreciate it though. And if it's slowly bouncing back well, just keep doing what you're doing.

In my tanks during about a month when B and Zn were both in the .07s and dosing daily, several things began to melt at the stems down low; mac varie, myrio mini, didiplis and gratiola. So one or both of those caused problems at daily .07

At 4-5x per week havent noticed anything negative, but I still think it's too much.

I've been trying something new for the past 3 weeks- dosing higher concentrations only 3x per week

Fe - .3
Mn - .075
B - .06
Zn - .06
Mo - .002
Cu - .003
Ni - .0005

This is close to the old v13.15 that several of us were dosing daily at one point.

And I gotta say things are doing as well as ever.

Im trying 3x per week for two reasons, the convenience of going back to micros and macros on alternating days, and also because I have a theory about concentration and absorption.

As we know some of these non-chelated micros dont stick around very long. And we also know that concentration affects absorption. Higher concentrations make it easier to absorb smaller amounts. That's general biology, not just plants

So having .06 Zn for example, makes it easier for all plants to 'get enough' before it goes away in say a few hours (guessing on the time which is heavily related to PH)

Some things may not have access to enough at only .03 daily. .03 wont be absorbed as easily as .06, and it wont be around as long either

Also Fe and most micros dont have to be in a steady concentration all the time, like how its better to have NO3 and PO4 steady. Plants can drink up Fe one day and be OK for a while as long as they have plenty. So that's another reason

Its just a theory. After a while I may try this exact recipe cut in half and dosed daily to see if there's any difference. All I can say right now is a higher concentration 3x is working well.


And you're absolutely right small tweaks can make a big big difference. Who woulda thunk it??
makes sense after looking up charts like these




and then we have to apply what we know form Mulder's chart too, oof lot of info / complexities.

I finally get why @Xiaozhuang / dennis said people under dose Phosphate lol

anyone if there's charts for how temperature affect nutrient uptake too? I'm pretty sure warmer temps = more nutrient uptake but having another source would be nice
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Last edited by SingAlongWithTsing; 10-22-2018 at 04:39 AM. Reason: ...
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post #1082 of 1375 (permalink) Old 10-22-2018, 03:24 PM
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Looking at the charts. What would the ideal ph be, for macros and micros?
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post #1083 of 1375 (permalink) Old 10-24-2018, 12:06 AM
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Anyone know how much citric acid to add for a 500ml?
I add 700mg /500ml of the ascorbic acid as an antioxidant and 300mg / 500ml of potassium sorbate as a mold inhibitor.
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post #1084 of 1375 (permalink) Old 10-24-2018, 12:41 PM
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Citric acid won't cut it, like ascorbic acid.. Like a 2 in one?
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post #1085 of 1375 (permalink) Old 10-24-2018, 04:25 PM
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First post to the thread. Great thread BTW.

A question for the knowledgeable. I'm starting up a Cichild tank (Mbuna) and I'm still cycling. Once I can proceed I'll be injecting CO2 for Vals, Anubias and Java Fern.

In terms of Micros (considering the chart just posted by SAWT above) what sort of headaches am I in for due to the high initial pH of around 8.0-8.2 and are those issues reduced by the pH drop from CO2?

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post #1086 of 1375 (permalink) Old 10-24-2018, 07:11 PM
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@Cichlid-140 The issue with PH that high is that it's out of range for Fe chelates to remain bound to the Fe, EDTA (whats in csmb) would be a poor choice, DTPA would probably be affected some but its a better choice. The other issue is most of the micros in general become less available to plants in higher PH. Not unavailable, just less available. So you may have to dose higher levels than the the avg person.

Yes those issues are reduced as the PH drops from co2.

It doesnt sound like you're going to have very demanding plants, and I assume you wont be blasting a ton of light. So Id probably just see how it goes and not worry about it for the time being.

@NightHedgie Citric acid should work but Ive never used it and dont know how much to add. You could test it on distilled water and see how much it takes to get the PH around 4


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post #1087 of 1375 (permalink) Old 10-24-2018, 07:26 PM
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Joe, half way thru the week using the new formula.

Looks like i have to get a digital PH meter. But I'm using 0.75g Citric acid in 500ml... so far so good.

Still struggling with the fuzzy green algae and my Ammania Gracilis growth has gone funny....
Pictures attached... please advice..



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post #1088 of 1375 (permalink) Old 10-24-2018, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burr740 View Post
@Cichlid-140 The issue with PH that high is that it's out of range for Fe chelates to remain bound to the Fe, EDTA (whats in csmb) would be a poor choice, DTPA would probably be affected some but its a better choice. The other issue is most of the micros in general become less available to plants in higher PH. Not unavailable, just less available. So you may have to dose higher levels than the the avg person.

If I decide to augment the Fe, you specified DTPA. Is there a reason you didn't mention Fe Gluconate?

Yes those issues are reduced as the PH drops from co2.

At least there's that.

It doesnt sound like you're going to have very demanding plants, and I assume you wont be blasting a ton of light. So Id probably just see how it goes and not worry about it for the time being.

By my best calculation I max out at about 50 PAR at the substrate and can adjust that down in 1% increments. I plan for 50% or less starting out. I'm hopeing the Val's (Jungle) will benefit from much of their foliage being at the surface.
Thanks for the response

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post #1089 of 1375 (permalink) Old 10-24-2018, 08:04 PM
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Thanks for the response
Gluconate precipitates very quickly in PH mid 7s and up.

Plants absorb it very fast so they're still able to get a little bit, but it just doesnt stick around long. It can be gone in just a couple or few hours.

It is also known to cloud the water in higher PH levels, not always but its common.

So thats why I didnt mention gluconate

Of course you can try it and see. If it doesnt cloud the water and those slow growing plants are able to get a quick sip every day or two it might work fine


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post #1090 of 1375 (permalink) Old 10-24-2018, 08:21 PM
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Gluconate precipitates very quickly in PH mid 7s and up.

Plants absorb it very fast so they're still able to get a little bit, but it just doesnt stick around long. It can be gone in just a couple or few hours.

It is also known to cloud the water in higher PH levels, not always but its common.

So thats why I didnt mention gluconate

Of course you can try it and see. If it doesnt cloud the water and those slow growing plants are able to get a quick sip every day or two it might work fine
Noted. If shows up as an issue I'll get some DTPA. Thanks.

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post #1091 of 1375 (permalink) Old 10-24-2018, 09:31 PM
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Burr740 any comments on the ammania gracilis?

For the fuzzy green algae on the leaves, could i be over dosing?
thanks

Bump: Burr740 any comments on the ammania gracilis?

For the fuzzy green algae on the leaves, could i be over dosing?
thanks
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post #1092 of 1375 (permalink) Old 10-25-2018, 12:09 AM Thread Starter
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@Greggz: How are you posting your spreadsheet info, it looks nice and clear? I snipped mine off the screen and made a jpg file from it, but it's not as clear as yours. Let me know.
Ken sorry I forgot to respond to this post.

My spreadsheet is in Excel, and I'm taking a screen shot, cropping it, and also saving it as a .jpg. Not sure why yours is a little blurry.

I have posted my spreadsheet up to a google drive, and you and anyone else is welcome to use it.

Several of us now have been using it to post a quick snapshot of what's going on with our tank. I save a new copy every time I change something and date it. One of the many ways I track my details.

You can find it here.....................


https://drive.google.com/open?id=1CI...JZdxESN07exBsu

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Burr740 any comments on the ammania gracilis?

For the fuzzy green algae on the leaves, could i be over dosing?
thanks
NightHedgie do you have all of the specs of your tank posted somewhere? I highly doubt algae like that has anything to do with too many ferts. And it needs to be taken in the context of everything else.

The only time I have seen algae like that is when my CO2 ran out, or too little ferts. Just saying could be lots of reasons.

And tough to base too much on those two plants, as they aren't easy to begin with. Do you have a full tank shot?

And curious what Burr thinks too. Something going on there for sure, but not sure what.


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post #1093 of 1375 (permalink) Old 10-25-2018, 12:47 AM
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Noted. If shows up as an issue I'll get some DTPA. Thanks.
Other than DTPA and gluconate there is one other choice. It is Fe EDDHA it is stable at a PH of about 10. and should stick around a lot longer than gluconate.

https://www.amazon.com/Grow-More-654...70_&dpSrc=srch
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post #1094 of 1375 (permalink) Old 10-25-2018, 01:07 AM
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Burr740 any comments on the ammania gracilis?

For the fuzzy green algae on the leaves, could i be over dosing?
thanks
Hard to say other than there's definitely an imbalance somewhere. Ive never correlated that specific type of algae with something in particular.

Check co2, make sure that's good and stable from one day to the next.

Clean the filter, remove any gunk laying around on the substrate, wipe the glass, and remove any dead or dying leaves. Do a big water change.

Do all that first anytime there's a problem. We like to focus on ferts when a lot of the time it's one or more of the above that needs doing.

If that dont help then try raising or lowering something. If it gets better, great. If it gets worse, do the opposite.

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Other than DTPA and gluconate there is one other choice. It is Fe EDDHA it is stable at a PH of about 10. and should stick around a lot longer than gluconate.

https://www.amazon.com/Grow-More-654...70_&dpSrc=srch
Exactly right. The only problem is it turns the water red even in small amounts, so most people dont like using it


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post #1095 of 1375 (permalink) Old 10-25-2018, 09:35 PM
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Check co2, make sure that's good and stable from one day to the next.
Yup stable
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Originally Posted by burr740 View Post
Clean the filter, remove any gunk laying around on the substrate, wipe the glass, and remove any dead or dying leaves. Do a big water change.
Just did the above as u suggested... but I remove dead leaves everyday if there is / wipe glass too....I WC every week 50%, clean my filter every 3 weeks

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If that dont help then try raising or lowering something. If it gets better, great. If it gets worse, do the opposite.
Any suggestions to raising /lowering the something ?
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