warning for osmocote peoples - Page 3 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #31 of 103 (permalink) Old 12-06-2010, 06:21 PM
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Sorry I misspoke!

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post #32 of 103 (permalink) Old 12-06-2010, 11:51 PM
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Day two results:

Left to right (Tap 0, Whole .5 - 1.0, Crushed 1.0 - 2.0)




I accidentally deleted the other pictures, but the yellow gives you the scale if you like.

My thoughts are the initial spike was from the osmocote surfacing, but the 8.0 readings were probably with the dead fish or something else put into the combo. After all, I am not getting quite yet 2.0 and I don't have plants to absorb the excess.

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post #33 of 103 (permalink) Old 12-07-2010, 12:00 AM
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That sounds like a pretty accurate assessment of this. I too suspect a small initial spike from when put in, that honestly shouldn't have harmed your fish... however, if they were weak in any way(it can be really hard to tell with fish) they would have succumbed to the ammonia and particularly high nitrate(which I do not understand, as of now).

It is possible when you put them in you mixed up some organics that started decaying further as well. I think the only way you could get an ammonia level of 8 is from the decaying fish though, as sara's test shows spike but not nearly that high, even in the crushed capsules.

Interesting though. Our tanks are such tiny worlds that things really can change things fast. A few connected or even unconnected events can wreak havoc on our tanks in such a short time it leaves us in panic trying to pick up the pieces.

I would say the most important thing for your particular tank is to do things slowly. Only put a few capsules in at a time over the course of week(s). ALso, I put them in my tanks during water change, mainly because I keep my arms dry, but also because it gives a new volume of water to dilute any organics and such I might be stirring up.


Later this week I will do a similar test that shows the comparison with substrates(a few different types) in place.
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post #34 of 103 (permalink) Old 12-07-2010, 12:05 AM
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Here are your pics, side by side for comparison(in reverse, I think):

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post #35 of 103 (permalink) Old 12-07-2010, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post
Not me! I suggested a very thin layer of Osmocote at the bottom of the substrate, not an 1/8 inch of it, which I would call a huge amount. Now, I hope I'm right about that

I have a 8 gallon nanocube tank sitting right in front of me that was set up with a very thin layer of Osmocote at the bottom of a layer of MTS, several weeks ago. No algae problem, no fish problems.
+1

I never said more than thin layer,

1/8"???

Where have I said dat?

A thin layer, maybe 5 grams per sq ft. This is not enough to even make full coverage of the bottom in a uniform way.

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post #36 of 103 (permalink) Old 12-07-2010, 02:34 AM
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If the tank has a good filter and also have good plant growth, you should not ever measure any NH4.

So over say 4-6 weeks, there should be little to no NH4 due to the bacterial filter.........

Same with folks that do the Fishless cycling...........they add lots of NH4.........and it's converted to NO3 over time.
Water changes, more filtration, etc.


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post #37 of 103 (permalink) Old 12-07-2010, 02:39 AM
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Obviously I misred or misunderstood something someone said.

None the less, this doesn't change the results we've found here.

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post #38 of 103 (permalink) Old 12-07-2010, 05:45 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plantbrain View Post
If the tank has a good filter and also have good plant growth, you should not ever measure any NH4.

So over say 4-6 weeks, there should be little to no NH4 due to the bacterial filter.........

Same with folks that do the Fishless cycling...........they add lots of NH4.........and it's converted to NO3 over time.
Water changes, more filtration, etc.


Regards,
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hi tom,

some of my plants seems to be growing much better since the ammonia went that high, however some of the plants were looks like they got burnt due to high ammonia (someone said that is what high ammonia does to plants).

i can smell something from my tank already, does not smell that bad though. i don't know how ammonia smells like and cant be sure about it.
i have used the osmocte in the past without any problem, but have no idea what happen this time.

i did not find 1 of my dead fish, maybe that could trigger more ammonia also, fish was known as gara ruffa doctor fish.

thank you guys for your help and thanks for testing the stuff and hopefully others can learn more from this information.

thanks
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post #39 of 103 (permalink) Old 12-07-2010, 11:39 AM
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I'll update a new test tonight to see if there is any change. After that, I'll wrap up the experiment. Not finding one of the dead fish is probably the main problem, but after a while, with the fish decomposing quickly, the cycling will kick in again and you shouldn't have more issues with time and good water changes.

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post #40 of 103 (permalink) Old 12-08-2010, 12:49 AM
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This is an interesting change of events:

Tap, Whole, Crushed


Tap - 0


Whole - Definitely at 1.0 now


Crushed - Turning bluish - looks very close to 8.0!


So theoretically, if the osmocote became crushed and uprooted and there was enough in the water: It is plausible the osmocote was causing a high reading on the ammonia test. How accurate API test kits are? They've been pretty dead on for me when I've done the comparison with a known sample.

That's the end of the line for me unless I am personally asked to test anymore. It's been a fun lesson and you know me and test kits.

Draw your own conclusions, though. I am a numbers person, not a scientist.

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post #41 of 103 (permalink) Old 12-08-2010, 01:57 AM
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Over time, the whole will be a bit different, initially fairly high, then a slow tapering off.

You can also ask the makers, they will give some decent info.

So think about the product or anything as a whole unit as added into the tank..........then..think about doing a time series over say a representative time frame, in this case, 1-6 months etc.
A little sealed jar is fine.

For say CO2, a data logging of the CO2 ppm each 30minutes and then at night can be far more useful than a single test point during the day at some random time.

Same is true for the O2.



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post #42 of 103 (permalink) Old 12-08-2010, 11:20 AM
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Quite honestly, doing an experiment for 1 - 6 months would be great if I had the time. Right now, I am working crazy hours and was just kind of interested in general results. If anyone else wants to take over, I encourage it. I just like the idea that his test results were plausible.

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post #43 of 103 (permalink) Old 12-08-2010, 05:24 PM
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^^i think that it proves that it wasnt the Osmocote that caused the ridiculously high spike...but the fish decomposing

sure your amm. levels raised in the whole capsule test tube...but it didnt hit >8ppm unless you smashed them...
also...your concentration of OS was (I hope) significantly higher than what he had in his tank

it is IMPOSSIBLE to find 1 person who regrets going pressurized

if you do it right, you can spend a lot of money in this hobby...of course, if you do it wrong - you'll spend A LOT more
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post #44 of 103 (permalink) Old 12-08-2010, 07:21 PM
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Most terrestrial fertilizers are ammonia based. I just got over a spike in my tank from fertz that were under the substrate but then a plant died and when i pulled it out i gave myself a mini cycle.

Have you ever seen a French Ninja? NO because they are sneaky.

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post #45 of 103 (permalink) Old 12-08-2010, 07:30 PM
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true
...but the OP said that he had a few pellets coming up here and there

not a major rescape or the like...a dropping a dew pellets in even a 10gal tank wont raise your amm. to 8ppm overnight

it is IMPOSSIBLE to find 1 person who regrets going pressurized

if you do it right, you can spend a lot of money in this hobby...of course, if you do it wrong - you'll spend A LOT more
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