kh higher than my gh?? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 11:16 AM Thread Starter
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kh higher than my gh??

Need advice as I'm a total noob.
I want to keep a few misoura bees.
My 12l nano tank has tropica aquasoil. Anubias nana and Marimo moss on bogwood. Anubias petite on moorwood. Some HC and some marimo moss pads on suckers to create two platforms.

Tanks been running for 12 days.

Easylife easycarbo
0.5ml liquid carbon daily in the morning.
Easylife profito
1 ml weekly after water change.(only just had it's second dose)
Ph is 5.6-6
GH is 1.4
KH is 2.8
TDS is 149
No3 is 0
No2 is 1
Ammonia <0.02

I'm looking for the the most natural solution please and if anyone can explain why my kh is higher I'd appreciate it too. I'm assuming I need to up GH whilst lowering kh...if I'm getting that wrong then please God explain it to me until I understand guys, please lol Tia.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nanotanker83 View Post
Need advice as I'm a total noob.
I want to keep a few misoura bees.
My 12l nano tank has tropica aquasoil. Anubias nana and Marimo moss on bogwood. Anubias petite on moorwood. Some HC and some marimo moss pads on suckers to create two platforms.

Tanks been running for 12 days.

Easylife easycarbo
0.5ml liquid carbon daily in the morning.
Easylife profito
1 ml weekly after water change.(only just had it's second dose)
Ph is 5.6-6
GH is 1.4
KH is 2.8
TDS is 149
No3 is 0
No2 is 1
Ammonia <0.02

I'm looking for the the most natural solution please and if anyone can explain why my kh is higher I'd appreciate it too. I'm assuming I need to up GH whilst lowering kh...if I'm getting that wrong then please God explain it to me until I understand guys, please lol Tia.
Quote:
GH measures Ca & Mg, & KH measures the carbonates (CO3 & HCO3).
Kh is your buffering capacity so higher the better in general.
Quote:
high KH is good for your tank, even a planted tank where you are shooting for a low pH. Good buffering capacity will mean a more stable tank, working against the natural acidification that will occur over time and can drastically (sometimes undesirably) lower pH.
Quote:
As far as fish tank goes, just make sure you have adaquate KH (like 4 & up) to maintain pH stability. Other than that, you only have to worry about very high GH & KH, as this would induce osmotic stress.
YOUR Nitrite level is more of a problem..and pretty low pH

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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 12:40 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, I think I get that about kh, so would cuttle bone help raise my ph a tad?

Lol I feel like an idiot, I've been reading it the wrong way round!! Ok that makes it no3 at 25 and no2 at 0!
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 12:41 PM
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Something could be wrong with your testing (e.g. the nutrafin KH and GH titration tests you multiply drops by 10 to get KH in ppm as CaCO3 but by 20 to get GH as ppm and mixing that up will give GH values that are too low). KH is hardness due to dissolved carbonate salts (MgCO3, CaCO3, KCO3, Ca(HCO₃)₂ etc) regardless of cation (metal ion) and GH is Ca and Mg regardless of anion (these anions are usually mostly (bi)carbonate (CO3, HCO3) and sulfate (SO4) salts). So things like sodium bicarbonate, NaHCO3, raise KH but not GH while things like calcium sulfate (CaSO4) raise GH but not KH. Your results suggest you have soft water, probably with a fair amount of sodium.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 12:43 PM Thread Starter
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And wouldn't my kh be too high for cardi shrimps? Is there a solution to this?
Must I take the ro root?
Thanks for taking the time to reply :-)
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snarkinturtle View Post
Something could be wrong with your testing (e.g. the nutrafin KH and GH titration tests you multiply drops by 10 to get KH in ppm as CaCO3 but by 20 to get GH as ppm and mixing that up will give GH values that are too low). KH is hardness due to dissolved carbonate salts (MgCO3, CaCO3, KCO3, Ca(HCO₃)₂ etc) regardless of cation (metal ion) and GH is Ca and Mg regardless of anion (these anions are usually mostly (bi)carbonate (CO3, HCO3) and sulfate (SO4) salts). So things like sodium bicarbonate, NaHCO3, raise KH but not GH while things like calcium sulfate (CaSO4) raise GH but not KH. Your results suggest you have soft water, probably with a fair amount of sodium.
Thanks for replying.

I'm not majorly educated so bare with me....so salt...? Of sorts?? That's not good.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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I'm using king British 6in1 strip tests and seachems ammonia and ph in tank detectors .
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 01:04 PM
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Test strips are unreliable and limited. Liquid test kits are more reliable than test strips are.


Without buffering substrate, you need KH to help keep the pH stable, so that I wouldn't change, but you do need something to raise the GH.


If you want to have the best chance of success, you need to start over, from scratch. You need a buffering substrate, RO/DI water and GH+ only shrimp minerals.



That is, unless you can find someone who keeps bee shrimp in water with 2-3 KH.



We can't tell you why your KH is higher than your GH unless we had more info... i.e. your GH and KH out of tap, what's in the tank, etc.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 01:13 PM
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Some parameters.

Quote:
The Bee Shrimp prefers soft acidic water.
Clean water is also a must as with all shrimp in the hobby. However, like the Crystal Red Shrimp, the Bee Shrimp may also be the most vulnerable shrimp when housed in dirty water. Water changes are a must for this species.
Temperature should be lower than 80F and the pH should range from 6.2 to 6.8, gH should be between 4-6 and kH should be between 1-2. It is very important that the Bee Shrimp be housed in specific conditions. Extremes in either water parameters mentioned should be avoided. It cannot be stressed enough how delicate this shrimp is. As you approach higher grades of this species, water parameters become even more important.
Quote:
while things like calcium sulfate (CaSO4) raise GH but not KH. Your results suggest you have soft water,
normally I'd just suggest "aging" to raise the gH but these guy look pretty particular..

JUst raise the gH a bit..As to pH..???? Close.

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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
Some parameters.

Quote:
The Bee Shrimp prefers soft acidic water.
Clean water is also a must as with all shrimp in the hobby. However, like the Crystal Red Shrimp, the Bee Shrimp may also be the most vulnerable shrimp when housed in dirty water. Water changes are a must for this species.
Temperature should be lower than 80F and the pH should range from 6.2 to 6.8, gH should be between 4-6 and kH should be between 1-2. It is very important that the Bee Shrimp be housed in specific conditions. Extremes in either water parameters mentioned should be avoided. It cannot be stressed enough how delicate this shrimp is. As you approach higher grades of this species, water parameters become even more important.
Quote:
while things like calcium sulfate (CaSO4) raise GH but not KH. Your results suggest you have soft water,
normally I'd just suggest "aging" to raise the gH but these guy look pretty particular..

JUst raise the gH a bit..As to pH..???? Close.
See now the breeder statesThese are Taiwan Bee shrimps and can be kept together with cherry shrimps without any cross breeding.

Name Blue Shadow Mosura (Caridina Cantonensis)

Grade: Mosura pattern, with black head and body has blue shadow from light to medium blue.

Care Requirement: Easy

Maxium Growth Size: 2.5cm

Water Parameters:

pH:5.8 to 6.5
TDS: 100 to 180 minimum
GH: 4-8
kH: 0-1

Temperature: 21-23 (optimum), but they can stay in 19 to 25 degree

Shipping Size: 1 to 1.2cm.......

Is the breeder referring to his shrimps current params or preferred params? This is where I start getting confused too.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidburg View Post
Test strips are unreliable and limited. Liquid test kits are more reliable than test strips are.


Without buffering substrate, you need KH to help keep the pH stable, so that I wouldn't change, but you do need something to raise the GH.


If you want to have the best chance of success, you need to start over, from scratch. You need a buffering substrate, RO/DI water and GH+ only shrimp minerals.



That is, unless you can find someone who keeps bee shrimp in water with 2-3 KH.



We can't tell you why your KH is higher than your GH unless we had more info... i.e. your GH and KH out of tap, what's in the tank, etc.
tropica aquasoil.
Out of my tap the water is
Ph 7.2
GH 6.8
Kh 2.8
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 02:26 PM
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Some CEC seems to be occurring.. pulling Ca and Mg ions out of solution..Plants maybe contributing..
I'd guess that Gh will go up soon on it's own..

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
Some CEC seems to be occurring.. pulling Ca and Mg ions out of solution..Plants maybe contributing..
I'd guess that Gh will go up soon on it's own..
I really wish that made a lick of sense to me...what could the plants be doing? and GH change, Am I right in assuming GH might rise after a while as buffering wont last forever from the soil?

Am I anywhere close to grasping this? Lol.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 03:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
Some CEC seems to be occurring.. pulling Ca and Mg ions out of solution..Plants maybe contributing..
I'd guess that Gh will go up soon on it's own..
high clay content?
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 03:11 PM
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Ca and Mg are macro nutrients for plants.. Ca for tissues Mg for chlorophyll.
Quote:
Macronutrients: N, K, Ca, Mg, P, and S, and
Micronutrients: Cl, Fe, B, Mn, Zn, Cu, Mo, and Ni
Some clays have low CEC (cation exchange capacity)

Quote:
The most common soil cations (including their chemical symbol and charge) are: calcium (Ca++), magnesium (Mg++), potassium (K+), ammonium (NH4+), hydrogen (H+) and sodium (Na+). Notice that some cations have more than one positive charge.
Defining Cation Exchange Capacity
Cations held on the clay and organic matter particles in soils can be replaced by other cations; thus, they are exchangeable. For instance, potassium can be replaced by cations such as calcium or hydrogen, and vice versa.
https://www.extension.purdue.edu/ext...ay/ay-238.html

So there may be some exchange w/ Ca/Mg w/ another "salt" ion..

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