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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 04:42 AM Thread Starter
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Losing gain

When I started my tank almost a year ago I had crazy plant growth. Things have slowed down a lot. Like I basically can't grow sword, I'm pumping in c02 and the nitrates are +10-20ppm without losing shrimp or fish. Recently pushed in a bunch of root cap from a reputable source, and it looks like nothing is happening. I remember once upon a time you'd put one of those in and in the morning you'd have a new plant. I've even upped the lights to almost 50%, I just see more BBA, and not more explosive growth.

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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 05:03 AM
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Hi sfshrimp,

No pics, no info on dosing, are we supposed to guess?

Much of the Bay Area gets it's water from the Sierras - mostly snow melt with minimal nutrients - guess you have low dKH and dGH? . If you have shrimp I am guessing you don't do major water changes and the ones you do are shallow and infrequent. Pick up a mall bottle of Seachem Equlibrium, dose it at 1 level tablespoon per 10 gallons; this will raise your dGH by 2.0 degrees and add some much needed Ca and Mg (along with K and some micro-nutrients). Watch for new growth, let me know how things look after a week.

Roy_________
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 05:17 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist View Post
Hi sfshrimp,

No pics, no info on dosing, are we supposed to guess?

Much of the Bay Area gets it's water from the Sierras - mostly snow melt with minimal nutrients - guess you have low dKH and dGH? . If you have shrimp I am guessing you don't do major water changes and the ones you do are shallow and infrequent. Pick up a mall bottle of Seachem Equlibrium, dose it at 1 level tablespoon per 10 gallons; this will raise your dGH by 2.0 degrees and add some much needed Ca and Mg (along with K and some micro-nutrients). Watch for new growth, let me know how things look after a week.

Sorry, yes I should have included more info.

Bay area is mixing water now post draught with hetch hetchy. We got ammonia here about .5ppm and switched to RO which wastes more water (thank god we are not in a drought), but does reduce ammonia to .2 or less. I change water every week. Run EI dosing ~ 10-20PPM nitrates per week before water change. GH - 6 KH 3. Also using root capsules, most likely osmocote. I'm also getting consistent shrimp from my stock (mostly the black carbons and maylas and cherries) with what the guppies, adfs or rummies don't partake in. I'm quite sure I'd have a bigger census without the fish, but I'm ok with a 75 / 25 as long as I still see those shrimp. The plants are just not booming like how they used to.

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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-18-2017, 03:53 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist View Post
Hi sfshrimp,

No pics, no info on dosing, are we supposed to guess?

Much of the Bay Area gets it's water from the Sierras - mostly snow melt with minimal nutrients - guess you have low dKH and dGH? . If you have shrimp I am guessing you don't do major water changes and the ones you do are shallow and infrequent. Pick up a mall bottle of Seachem Equlibrium, dose it at 1 level tablespoon per 10 gallons; this will raise your dGH by 2.0 degrees and add some much needed Ca and Mg (along with K and some micro-nutrients). Watch for new growth, let me know how things look after a week.
Here's the pic of the general sort of conundrum going on with the plants. The sword is sort of struggling to take off, getting brown. A lot of the java fern gets this sort of look also when it's bigger. I had some tiger lotus which will sprout and then melt once a few leaves take off. Congo fern (bolbitis) and mosses are good. Downoi is at a stand still. Brazilian pennywort does fine. Flame sword is also not declining, but not really growing either.

Something is missing for sure, and it's not nitrates or c02. I thought the root tabs were going to introduce some improvement but not seeing it.





Here's bonus footage of frogs being silly:
https://vimeo.com/222053810/89c4ca228f

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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-18-2017, 06:02 AM
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Hi sfshrimp,

Thanks for the pictures, they seem to confirm what I expected so I'm going to stick with the original diagnosis. Try increasing your dGH by 2.0 degrees and see what the new growth looks like in a couple of weeks. The reason I suggested Seachem Equilibrium is if there is a Mg deficiency it is very likely that Ca is also lacking. Dosing some extra iron wouldn't hurt either. Here are the symptoms of a Mg deficiency:
Quote:
Interveinal chlorosis. Interveinal chlorosis first appears on oldest leaves.

1. Older leaves chlorotic, usually necrotic in late stages. Chlorosis along leaf margins extending between veins produces a "Christmas tree" pattern. Veins normal green. Leaf margins may curl downward or upward with puckering effect. Necrosis may suddenly occur between veins. Potassium or calcium excess can inhibit uptake of magnesium...magnesium deficiency

When the external magnesium supply is deficient, interveinal chlorosis of the older leaves is the first symptom because as the magnesium of the chlorophyll is remobilized, the mesophyll cells next to the vascular bundles retain chlorophyll for longer periods than do the parenchyma cells between them. Leaves lose green color at tips and between veins followed by chlorosis or development of brilliant colors, starting with lower leaves and proceeding upwards. The chlorosis/brilliant colors (unmasking of other leaf pigments due to the lack of chlorophyll) may start at the leaf margins or tips and progress inward interveinally producing a "Christmas" tree pattern. Leaves are abnormally thin, plants are brittle and branches have a tendency to curve upward.
I deal with Ca and Mg issues regularly here in the Seattle area because of the soft water and using a high CEC substrate such as Safe-T-Sorb or ADA Aquasoil tends to remove what little dissolved nutrients the soft water does contain.

Roy_________
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-18-2017, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist View Post
Hi sfshrimp,

Thanks for the pictures, they seem to confirm what I expected so I'm going to stick with the original diagnosis. Try increasing your dGH by 2.0 degrees and see what the new growth looks like in a couple of weeks. The reason I suggested Seachem Equilibrium is if there is a Mg deficiency it is very likely that Ca is also lacking. Dosing some extra iron wouldn't hurt either. Here are the symptoms of a Mg deficiency:


I deal with Ca and Mg issues regularly here in the Seattle area because of the soft water and using a high CEC substrate such as Safe-T-Sorb or ADA Aquasoil tends to remove what little dissolved nutrients the soft water does contain.
I keep my GH at 6, for the shrimp. Is there any other way to correct this without raising GH to 8? Thanks for the help here... Maybe I could try the equilibirum?

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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-18-2017, 07:28 PM
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Hi sfshrimp,

First of all I agree that the live inhabitants of our aquariums should be of first importance. That said, most fish and shrimp species are tolerant of changes in water parameters, especially if the changes are gradual but even sometimes when they are not that gradual. Both fish and shrimp deal with ever-changing parameters in the wild between wet seasons, dry seasons, floods, etc. Seachem Equilibrium will increase the dGH because it contains calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg) (it also contains potassium and micro-nutrients). To start, try adding just 1 level teaspoon per 10 gallons - it will only increase the dGH by 0.7 dGH; then watch the new growth as it emerges....does it look healthier? If so you are on the right path. Keep us posted! -Roy

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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-19-2017, 12:48 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist View Post
Hi sfshrimp,

First of all I agree that the live inhabitants of our aquariums should be of first importance. That said, most fish and shrimp species are tolerant of changes in water parameters, especially if the changes are gradual but even sometimes when they are not that gradual. Both fish and shrimp deal with ever-changing parameters in the wild between wet seasons, dry seasons, floods, etc. Seachem Equilibrium will increase the dGH because it contains calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg) (it also contains potassium and micro-nutrients). To start, try adding just 1 level teaspoon per 10 gallons - it will only increase the dGH by 0.7 dGH; then watch the new growth as it emerges....does it look healthier? If so you are on the right path. Keep us posted! -Roy
Ok, I got a bottle of it. Do I use once after weekly water changes?

This is the GH product I was using previously...

aquavitro . mineralize

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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-19-2017, 02:42 AM
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Hi sfshrimp,

Aqiuavotro is made by Seachem, the same people that make Equlibrium. Aquavitro Mineralize doesn't state if it has other ingredients beside Ca and Mg, while Equilibrium will provide K, Fe, and Mn in addition to the Ca and Mg. As for dosing, let's start slowly, add the 1 teasspoon (not tablespoon) of Equilibrium per 10 gallons of water volume in your tank and let;s see how the new growth looks. When you do a water change, add 1 teaspoon of Equilibrium per 10 gallons of water being replaced. Let us know how things progress both with the plants and with the shrimp.

Roy_________
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-19-2017, 04:12 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist View Post
Hi sfshrimp,

Aqiuavotro is made by Seachem, the same people that make Equlibrium. Aquavitro Mineralize doesn't state if it has other ingredients beside Ca and Mg, while Equilibrium will provide K, Fe, and Mn in addition to the Ca and Mg. As for dosing, let's start slowly, add the 1 teasspoon (not tablespoon) of Equilibrium per 10 gallons of water volume in your tank and let;s see how the new growth looks. When you do a water change, add 1 teaspoon of Equilibrium per 10 gallons of water being replaced. Let us know how things progress both with the plants and with the shrimp.

I should have looked at the aquavitro bottle before I posted:

13.5 % calcium
1.2% mn

ingredients: calcium chloride, calcium gluconate, magnesium chloride.
Should I give it a go?

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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-19-2017, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfshrimp View Post
I should have looked at the aquavitro bottle before I posted:

13.5 % calcium
1.2% mn

ingredients: calcium chloride, calcium gluconate, magnesium chloride.
Should I give it a go?
Hi sfshrimp,
Since Equilibrium contains Potassium (K) along with Magnesium (Mg), Manganese (Mn), and Iron (Fe) I suggest using it instead of the Mineralize and see if you attain better results.

Roy_________
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