Seachem doesn't remove Ammonia (binds them instead for 24hrs) - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 03:23 AM Thread Starter
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Seachem doesn't remove Ammonia (binds them instead for 24hrs)

Hello, i have been using Seachem prime for 10 years now. Just recently, went to a Local fish shop and they recommended me this.



They say that a lot of hobbyist has moved to this because Seachem doesn't remove Ammonia but only binds it for 24-48 hours, rendering them harmless and releases them after this time frame.

The thing is, I usually prep / store my water for 2-3 days (after adding Seachem prime) to perform WC during the weekends, so does this means my tank would have traces of ammonia during WC?

I am currently using biohome, Seachem purigen and Chemi pure elite in my canister. So far API ammonia test kit reads 0 PPM every time. But I've noticed algae build up (mild brown, green, bba, hair algae) always on the 2nd day after WC.

Would appreciate if anyone can share some light on this topic and if aqua science is a better water conditioner.
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 03:51 AM
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Never heard of that stuff. And yes it binds the ammonia for that time frame because usually by then your filtration will take care of it. If you are reading correctly 0ppm ammonia then you are fine. I do not think that would have anything to do with algae on 2nd day after WC?

Is it only that day or does it continue throughout the week after the wc? Seems maybe you have a lack of nutrients and or light so the algae takes hold. Would need more info like dosing schedule and light, etc.
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 04:35 AM
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If you're under-filtered or overstocked, maybe that's causing your problem? Size of your tank and stock might be helpful with the algae issues.

You also probably don't have to store the water for 2-3 days if you're treating it with Prime. Usually people do that to take out chlorine etc, and you've already done that by adding the Prime (or by using an water conditioner or de-chlorinator). I would just dose the new water, then add it right away. It's what I've always done with no problems.

Bump: Also, if you're looking to save money by buying in bulk, I'd use Seachem Safe. Powdered form of Prime, way more bang for your buck.
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 05:13 AM
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I'd be interested to hear how that stuff breaks the ammonia molecule, and binds the nitrogen into a nontoxic compound. Is it harmlessly gassed off? Or does it need to be exported like nitrate? What's the science behind it? Prime holds it, allowing the nitrifying bacteria time to consume/convert it.
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 06:36 AM
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Believe Seachem Website Q&A would be able to explain the product.
Prime ,or Amquel Plus are all I have ever used.
Must not forget plant's ability to take up ammonia also.
I treat my tank's with PRIME(cheaper) just before I add new water.
Only ever had a problem when I forgot to treat at all.
Fishes pretty quick to let you know .
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 09:35 AM
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The algaes you listed all have been documented with different triggers. While ammonia is overall a huge trigger. Look at the individual algaes one by one. Id start with durarion of photo period and par.

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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 02:29 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for the replies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishbeard View Post
If you're under-filtered or overstocked, maybe that's causing your problem? Size of your tank and stock might be helpful with the algae issues.

You also probably don't have to store the water for 2-3 days if you're treating it with Prime. Usually people do that to take out chlorine etc, and you've already done that by adding the Prime (or by using an water conditioner or de-chlorinator). I would just dose the new water, then add it right away. It's what I've always done with no problems.

Bump: Also, if you're looking to save money by buying in bulk, I'd use Seachem Safe. Powdered form of Prime, way more bang for your buck.
Hi Fishbeard, this is my tank, been up and running for about 4 months now. Tank is filtered with a Eheim 2215. I have 2 cherry shrimp and 2 nerite snails in it. They were in the tank for 3 months now.



As you can see from my tank, I have green spot, brown algae, BBA, hair algae and Staghorn Algae.


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Originally Posted by Redneck tenner View Post
The algaes you listed all have been documented with different triggers. While ammonia is overall a huge trigger. Look at the individual algaes one by one. Id start with durarion of photo period and par.

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I have a Finnex Stingray fixture and a DIY 5050 LED 6500k strip at the rear. Photo period is 8 hours with co2 0.5 bps for 4 hrs (1hr before light comes on). Par should be anywhere around 25-30 I think at 13" depth. Ammonia/nitrite is 0ppm all the time. Nitrate hovers around 5 - 10 ppm per week with 1/3 EI dosing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadmaster View Post
Believe Seachem Website Q&A would be able to explain the product.
Prime ,or Amquel Plus are all I have ever used.
Must not forget plant's ability to take up ammonia also.
I treat my tank's with PRIME(cheaper) just before I add new water.
Only ever had a problem when I forgot to treat at all.
Fishes pretty quick to let you know .
So i can just add tap water to pail, add seachem prime and be ready for a water change in 10hours ? If can, I will do that next time.

Bump: It's a ADA 90-P by the way. Thank you. 185L or 48G.
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torque6 View Post
So i can just add tap water to pail, add seachem prime and be ready for a water change in 10hours ? If can, I will do that next time.
I am unclear why you are waiting at all.

I regularly do 50% water changes on 5 tanks ranging from 40 to 125 gallons.

I drain 50% of the water using a Python.
I turn the Python to fill mode and start adding water straight into the aquarium.
I dose the aquarium with Safe or Prime.

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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 02:40 PM
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Can add tap water to pail,add PRIME, and be ready for that water to be used in 5 or 10 min.
No need to let water set for 10 hours.
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 02:51 PM
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The stingray should be 35 par at 12 in. Your at thirteen but with extra light you should have decent par. Enough that you need to get nutrients balanced. Co2 seems low. Hard to say by bps but...0.5?

Gsa...need maybe check phosphates. Bba could be low co2 isue.

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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 02:58 PM
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As I understand the chemical reaction, it is almost instant. The only delay is in the two parts finding each other. And that is where diffusion comes into play. It has been explained like this for my slow brain?
If we go looking for our girl at a party of ten, we find her fine. But if it is a party of one hundred, we may need ten friends to find her in the same amount of time.
So if we treat in a bucket before adding to the tank, the two parts get together quickly. But if we add the same amount of dechlor to the main tank which is far larger without using more dechlor (friends?) the ammonia may not be found before there is some danger of the chlorine latching onto a fish instead!
We want the Prime finding the ammonia before something else happens.
But I also see no problem with treating the water long before it is added to the tank. I change water from a barrel reservoir and then refill, treat and store the water for as much as a week without signs of ammonia coming back. In this way, I always have treated water of the right temp on hand for quick changes if needed.
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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 03:36 PM
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So I'm no expert on high tech tanks... stick to the low tech myself. But your tank looks really good IMO, I can't really see much algae in the picture, but maybe it's worse IRL?

Since the tank has only been running for about 4 months, that might be what you're initial problem is. I know that with my first tank, I had terrible BGA for MONTHS before the tank started to even out. Now I have very few problems with algae at about 9 months. Even if a tank is cycled, doesn't mean it's going to be perfect algae-wise for awhile after the initial start-up.

Also, how big is that tank? Seems pretty big for the bioload you currently have. You could bump up the number of cherries and nerites, or add fish! I've heard that low bioload can contribute to algae problems, but I have no source for this info haha
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 06:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobnSonji View Post
I am unclear why you are waiting at all.

I regularly do 50% water changes on 5 tanks ranging from 40 to 125 gallons.

I drain 50% of the water using a Python.
I turn the Python to fill mode and start adding water straight into the aquarium.
I dose the aquarium with Safe or Prime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadmaster View Post
Can add tap water to pail,add PRIME, and be ready for that water to be used in 5 or 10 min.
No need to let water set for 10 hours.
Thank you Robn / roadmaster, didn't notice that you can add prime treated water within 5-10mins. Good to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redneck tenner View Post
The stingray should be 35 par at 12 in. Your at thirteen but with extra light you should have decent par. Enough that you need to get nutrients balanced. Co2 seems low. Hard to say by bps but...0.5?

Gsa...need maybe check phosphates. Bba could be low co2 isue.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
I used only a stingray previously, but had massive narrow fern die off in Jan/Feb due to insufficient par / lowlight. I thus added another strip of light at the rear and move the finnex closer to the front to illuminate the eleocharis parvula (they were added 2 weeks back). The massive die off could have trigger the algae then. I do see lower BBA growth since the dead leaves were all removed a month back.

Am dosing 1/3 of 1/32 teaspoon of Potassium Phosphate hydro, but that resulted less GSA but more brown algae ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlantedRich View Post
As I understand the chemical reaction, it is almost instant. The only delay is in the two parts finding each other. And that is where diffusion comes into play. It has been explained like this for my slow brain?
If we go looking for our girl at a party of ten, we find her fine. But if it is a party of one hundred, we may need ten friends to find her in the same amount of time.
So if we treat in a bucket before adding to the tank, the two parts get together quickly. But if we add the same amount of dechlor to the main tank which is far larger without using more dechlor (friends?) the ammonia may not be found before there is some danger of the chlorine latching onto a fish instead!
We want the Prime finding the ammonia before something else happens.
But I also see no problem with treating the water long before it is added to the tank. I change water from a barrel reservoir and then refill, treat and store the water for as much as a week without signs of ammonia coming back. In this way, I always have treated water of the right temp on hand for quick changes if needed.
Thanks will take note it's that fast. Thank you for confirming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishbeard View Post
So I'm no expert on high tech tanks... stick to the low tech myself. But your tank looks really good IMO, I can't really see much algae in the picture, but maybe it's worse IRL?

Since the tank has only been running for about 4 months, that might be what you're initial problem is. I know that with my first tank, I had terrible BGA for MONTHS before the tank started to even out. Now I have very few problems with algae at about 9 months. Even if a tank is cycled, doesn't mean it's going to be perfect algae-wise for awhile after the initial start-up.

Also, how big is that tank? Seems pretty big for the bioload you currently have. You could bump up the number of cherries and nerites, or add fish! I've heard that low bioload can contribute to algae problems, but I have no source for this info haha
Thank you for your compliment. My tank is a hybrid low light with co2, so I presume that things will grow slowly. The pressurized co2 is there to ensure consistency to prevent algae outbreak. I wouldn't be adding fish anytime soon due to the recent incident in an earlier thread....
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobnSonji View Post
I am unclear why you are waiting at all.

I regularly do 50% water changes on 5 tanks ranging from 40 to 125 gallons.

I drain 50% of the water using a Python.
I turn the Python to fill mode and start adding water straight into the aquarium.
I dose the aquarium with Safe or Prime.
me too for over 20 years now
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 06:28 PM
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One point in this discussion may make the chlorine or ammonia question a bit different than I see it. We should not tolerate much exposure to either but then if/ when we do, I don't see it as a big dramatic problem in many cases. Not implying that we should but exposing the fish to the chlorine in tap water may not be as instant damage as some perceive it to be. I view chlorine exposure to be somewhat more like sunburn to our skin. Not something that is good but I don't expect instant harm when I do slip up and run the tap water into the tank without treatment. I feel it has lots to do with the concentration of either ammonia or chlorine as well as how long that exposure continues.
Not to panic and assume all fish will die but then not to do it more than practical, real life involves.
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