Micros Solution and Ascorbic Acid - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-31-2017, 02:09 PM Thread Starter
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Micros Solution and Ascorbic Acid

I have a clarification question on making Micros Stock Solution. The solution will not stay in fridge; using auto-dosing.
Suggestion is to use RO/Distilled water, that's clear. Some suggest to at 10ml of Excel to prevent mold. Some suggest to add Ascorbit Acid and Potassium Sorbate. Here is the quote from james's planted tank

/////////////
Trace Mix Solution
10g Chelated Trace Element Mix (TNC Trace, CSM+B)
250 ml Water*
0.25g E300 Ascorbic Acid
0.1g E202 Potassium Sorbate

*It is preferable to make up the solutions in RO water or deionised water, but tap water can be used if need be. The Potassium Sorbate and Ascorbic Acid act as a yeast and mold inhibitor and antioxidant.
//////////////

Can i add Excel, and the Ascorbic Acid and Potassium Sorbate? Which one does what? How critical is to add antioxidant? Would be dry dossing a better method to prevent oxidation? What happens with he solution if it does get oxidation? [not a chemist here, sorry for lame questions]

Finally, probably a naive question: can one use the ascorbit acid as Vitamin C, from picture below? if yes, then how much to add?

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Last edited by alphabeta; 12-14-2019 at 09:22 PM.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-31-2017, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphabeta View Post
I have a clarification question on making Micros Stock Solution. The solution will not stay in fridge; using auto-dosing.
Suggestion is to use RO/Distilled water, that's clear. Some suggest to at 10ml of Excel to prevent mold. Some suggest to add Ascorbit Acid and Potassium Sorbate. Here is the quote from james's planted tank

/////////////
Trace Mix Solution
10g Chelated Trace Element Mix (TNC Trace, CSM+B)
250 ml Water*
0.25g E300 Ascorbic Acid
0.1g E202 Potassium Sorbate

*It is preferable to make up the solutions in RO water or deionised water, but tap water can be used if need be. The Potassium Sorbate and Ascorbic Acid act as a yeast and mold inhibitor and antioxidant.
//////////////

Can i add Excel, and the Ascorbic Acid and Potassium Sorbate? Which one does what? How critical is to add antioxidant? Would be dry dossing a better method to prevent oxidation? What happens with he solution if it does get oxidation? [not a chemist here, sorry for lame questions]

Finally, probably a naive question: can one use the ascorbit acid as Vitamin C, from picture below? if yes, then how much to add?
Hi, let me try and answer some of these points.

Glutaraldehyde is a sterilisation chemical (e.g. Metricide), the one we use are at around 1.5%. Below this it gets unstable and deteriorate quite fast. Adding it as a mold inhibitor to a solution is fine, but I would not expect it to work as an efficient as 1.5% Glutaraldehyde. So, good mold inhibitor, not good way to dose Glutaraldehyde.

Ascorbic acid is used to keep the pH low, 6 or under. This is to kept iron chelated, something you regularly do with EDTA and DTPA. If using EDDHA than this really optional, chelator-wise. 0.5 to 1 gram of ascorbic acid are usually enough to 500ml of water. You can use something you bought at the pharmacy, as long as it is not pure ascorbic acid, which might be or not available. The one you have in the picture is not a good idea, as it has carbonates. I would advise you to use acetic acid, aka vinegar, around 1:50 ratio, so 10ml to 500ml.

Potassium sorbate is a mold inhibitor as well. Around 0.25g to 0.5g per 500ml should be enough. Efficiency of potassium sorbate is also higher at pH 6, so thats a good idea to use it in acidic solutions



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I would not be concerned with oxidation, under these circumstances. I would rather focus on your tank, which chelators would work better for you.

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Last edited by Darkblade48; 04-01-2017 at 10:10 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-31-2017, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
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thanks ed.junior. Got it. I use CSM+B for my micros (bought from niloc Plantex CSM+B | 1lb - NilocG Aquatics) not sure what chelators are used.
I add Excel only to prevent molding, not as a CO2 sourse. CO2 is pressurized.

So, can i use the household white vinegar (pic below, sorry tilted again)? same dose 10ml/500ml or higher?
Is dry dosing better than making solution with RO water only?

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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-31-2017, 07:09 PM
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In my opinion both are fine, dry dosed or a solution. If your tank is small, it is really hard to dry dose. Then I would go for a solution. Dry is good because you keep it simple, and can always change your dose. For auto dosing you will need a solution :/

Nilo works with EDTA if I am not mistaken. Keep your pH under 7 or you will may have issues dosing iron, e.g. dose more than normal

Yeah, that vinegar is fine.

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-31-2017, 07:24 PM Thread Starter
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thanks got it.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, here is what i did: for micros
CSM+B, 14gr/400 ml with distilled water (400 was total volume)
10ml of vinegar, picture above
20ml of Excel (metricide 14 diluted 1:1 with DI)

Solution kept in the fridge. After two weeks, in the bottle from the fridge (pic 1, round water bottle) some sediment/salt is formed, no molding. What would be that and what implications it can have on the plants (deficiencies?) How can I prevent that?
The solution in the pump bottle also has some sediment, less but the solution was also less. (pic 2, square sanitizer bottle). Same question, what is that?

thanks!

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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 12:32 AM
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If I add a teaspoon of sugar to two teacups, one hot and one cold which will dissolve quicker?

Putting solutions in the cold is fine. However, some of the dissolved particles may reach their solubility limit at lower temperatures. Those solutes will suddenly fall out of solution as a precipitate which is what you are most likely experiencing.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 05:15 AM
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To prevent solubility issues I normally make a diluted solution and up my dose accordingly. So in your case you could use 7 mg and double your dose to get the ppm concentration you desire. This also has the benefit of using your solution up quicker to avoid possible mold issues developing the longer the solution is stored.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Zorfox and rhiro.

Zorfox, I see, makes sense. i think i know the answer about sugar, but also I think i know the answer for salt (NaCl), which essentially does not depend on the temperature. Still not clear why there are sediments in the second bottle that is always at the room temperature? Should I imply that even at room temperature, some of the elements in CSM+B are reaching their solubility? Which ones? i am just trying to understand more about this [not a chemist here ]

In this regards, is it better to dose dry micros? How essential is that?

rhiro - thanks. Ya, probably this is what i would do. i was making this particular strength just to have equal dosing in ml for both macros and micros. The adjustment then makes it very easy, in case i want to do say, 1/2 of micros only, etc. But of course, i can dilute now both or only one twice.

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
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In this regards, is it better to dose dry micros? How essential is that?
I don't believe you should dose dry micros. Micros are a mixture of different nutrients and a dry dosage is by weight very small consequently the concentration (ppm) of each nutrient added per dose could be highly variable. While that may also be true with a liquid solution at least you are using a greater amount which should minimize the variance.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
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rhiro, agree, but on the other hand, if one particular element is getting precipitated, then it will never get into the tank. I think that was my initial concern.

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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 11:30 PM
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Micros Solution and Ascorbic Acid

Can someone explain to me why these liquid mixes are preferable to a solid spoonful?never mind - answered a few posts above!


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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 06:51 PM Thread Starter
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Interesting, even after keeping it at room temperature, and shaking it well many times, the deposit do not dissolve. What would be that?

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