190g...no nh4/no2 for 2 weeks... add ferts? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 5 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
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190g...no nh4/no2 for 2 weeks... add ferts?

Hi everyone...

We just set up a 190g. Specs:

60" left/right, 24" front/back, 30" tall
RO water/remineralized to keep a level of 4 dkh, 200 tds
Co2 on controller
ph: 6.6
Filtration: two Eheim 2262
Lighting: 3 * Kessil a360 tuna sun
Heater: 2 inline hydor 300W on controller
black fluorite substrate

Heavily planted with about half stems other half crypts, anubias , J. val, S. repens, micro sword etc

Initially the water sat stagnant with a large manzanita stump (attempting to waterlog it) for about 4 weeks.
We got all the plumbing/lights etc working about 2 weeks ago.

1 week ago I added 30 baby Trigonostigma espei (lambchop rasbora)
I saw no ammo or nitrite spikes...saw a scant trace of nitrate

yesterday I added 30 more baby T. espei and 20 cherry shrimp.

Now readings are all 0 for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.

I do a 20% water change every day or two to get rid of the neverending fluorite cloudiness ( I didn't rinse it...believed the packaging lol)

Is it possible I may not see a cycle in this tank with the amount of plants I have?

When should I start dosing EI?

Thanks for any input
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post #2 of 5 (permalink) Old 01-23-2017, 08:45 PM
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your tank should definitely cycle eventually. it is interesting to think that plants could use all of your ammonia so you never have to cycle or anything. I feel like this is not reality / won't happen and you will see nitrates eventually.

your 20% water changes every day are probably why you're not seeing any readings for nitrates / ammonia. over time you will. IMO the best way to start a tank is to just do water changes like that all the time and after a month you should be all set. that is basically what I do, add fish immediately, do 10-20% water changes every 1-2 days and then after a month or so do larger water changes less regularly. after like 2 months i'm fine with no issues. this basically avoids the 'cycle' that people refer to (toxic levels of nitrates and maybe ammonia) because you constantly remove it from the system. the bacteria will still grow.

also I am pretty sure with a tank that large it will take quite a long time to fully establish your beneficial bacteria so just wait for it.

the cycling process should be totally independent of dosing ferts. adding 5ppm of nitrates, etc is not going to harm your fish in any way if that's what you're worried about. IMO you should just dose now if your plants are in there.

someone correct me if i'm wrong...

also your tank sounds like a beast of a setup. 3x kessils on a huge tank like that is pretty intense.


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post #3 of 5 (permalink) Old 01-23-2017, 09:02 PM
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I agree with Klibs above. Your plants will be in need of ferts, and the relatively small amount of fish compared to the tank size isn't going to contribute much.

As to the cycle, patience is your friend. It just takes time, and really can't be rushed. I'd keep doing what you are doing, and you should start getting some measurable readings soon.

I'm sure others will agree, when you announce a set up like your are describing, you really must include some pictures. Sounds like a good candidate for a journal to me! Making that much RO water is something I'd like to hear more about.

And I hope you have long arms. A 30" high tank must be a long reach to the bottom.

As a side note, is it just me, or does it seem like there are a bunch of larger (100+) tanks being set up right now. Very cool to see. Must have been a nice Christmas around here!


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post #4 of 5 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 08:32 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for answering guys...ok will start dosing now...got some bottles to tide me over until my dry ferts come on Thursday.

Speaking of water changes, something bizarre/worrisome happens each time I do one. I can only think that somehow the CO2 to O2 ratio is stressing the fish.

Like i said, I only do about a 20-25% change at a time. It is remineralized RO that I store in a 55g food safe vat. It is not heated nor aerated. The tank PH remains basically the same...the dkh is the same (4), the temperature does drop by 2-3 degrees F. Immediately after the water change the lambchops will move to the surface gasping for about 20 min. They clearly look distressed. Then after this 20 min period they return 100% back to normal???

Do you guys have any insight as to why this happens? Could it be low 02 concentration in the vat coming into 30ppm Co2 aquarium water which temporarily stresses the fish?

I am adding a tunze stream to increase flow and agitate the surface a little more in the aquarium. I will also drop an airstone and heater into the vat before next water change.

I will post pics once the manzanita stops sliming...I cannot stand looking at it!! It could take weeks to clear I am reading....

I use a 50gpd RO...valves were put on the eheims and I just turn them to force the water into the basement drain. Then I use a pond pump to get the water back into the tank (it is plumbed direct as if I ever need to do a 50 g water change that would be a PITA)

I have to use very long scissors etc...the 30" height is irritating, but it is nice to look at
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post #5 of 5 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmb1974 View Post
Do you guys have any insight as to why this happens? Could it be low 02 concentration in the vat coming into 30ppm Co2 aquarium water which temporarily stresses the fish?

I am adding a tunze stream to increase flow and agitate the surface a little more in the aquarium. I will also drop an airstone and heater into the vat before next water change.
I would guess you are onto something above. Stagnant water contains less dissolved oxygen than flowing water.

When injecting large amounts of CO2, I believe in creating quite a bit of surface agitation to ensure good oxygen levels for the fauna. If you don't have much surface agitation in the tank, you may already have relatively low O2 levels to start with. Adding stagnant water probably only depletes the levels further.

Again, that's just my guess from my experience. I'd increase agitation in both the tank and in the stored water and I bet you are fine. I doubt the slight temperature difference has anything to do with it.


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