tap water is like pure poison for frogs. - The Planted Tank Forum
 5Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 04:13 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 221
tap water is like pure poison for frogs.

tap water is like pure poison for frogs even if it has Chloramines instead of chlorine.

Chloramines is not suppose to be as deadly but rather more stable.

The air line for my tadpole tank came out and siphon the water out of the tank.

I immediately took the garden hose and slowly added water as to not shock the tadpoles with any temperature difference as I went inside looking for the prime.

When I came back out with the prime all the frogs and tadpoles were dead.

I knew it was poison but did know it was that instant.

Just wanted everyone to know that you have to treat the water BEFORE its added to the tank and not after or at the same time.

Apparently frogs and tadpoles are super sensitive to Chloramines.

I wonder if you sprayed a frog with a garden hose if it would kill it or if this is only the baby frogs and tadpoles.

May no good deed go unpunished.
Overwatch is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 04:57 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
roadmaster's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Missouri united states
Posts: 5,576
Whoever told you chloramines is not as deadly to fauna was mistaken.
Is the ammonia in chloramines that can have instant negative effect on fauna depending on species, and or how much untreated tap water they are subjected to.
Might not have as big an effect with topping off a tank as opposed to large water change with untreated tap water.
roadmaster is offline  
post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 05:20 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadmaster View Post
Whoever told you chloramines is not as deadly to fauna was mistaken.
Is the ammonia in chloramines that can have instant negative effect on fauna depending on species, and or how much untreated tap water they are subjected to.
Might not have as big an effect with topping off a tank as opposed to large water change with untreated tap water.
You can thank Dustin and his supporters for that false information as well as URJoey who will routinely refill this tank directly from his tap.

Last edited by Overwatch; 12-12-2016 at 06:38 AM. Reason: sp
Overwatch is offline  
 
post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 06:21 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
roadmaster's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Missouri united states
Posts: 5,576
Well, Chloramines are not as deadly as what? Ammonia? chlorine?
Chloramine is.. Chlorine and ammonia.
One could split hair's I guess, and debate which is the more harmful, but the smart money I think would treat all Tap water if the welfare of fauna is primary concern.
roadmaster is offline  
post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 06:29 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadmaster View Post
Well, Chloramines are not as deadly as what? Ammonia? chlorine?
Chloramine is.. Chlorine and ammonia.
One could split hair's I guess, and debate which is the more harmful, but the smart money I think would treat all Tap water if the welfare of fauna is primary concern.
Chloramines not as deadly as chlorine. Primary concern was getting them water from a tank that was almost empty. Ended up being a big mistake.
Overwatch is offline  
post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 07:16 AM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
Olskule's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overwatch View Post
Chloramines not as deadly as chlorine...
Wrong. Chloramine is created by chemically bonding Chlorine and ammonia, the purpose of which is to produce a more stable additive to tap water which will prevent biological functions (mostly bacterial growth is targeted) and prevent water-born contamination more dependably. (The ammonia keeps the Chlorine from leaving the water easily.) Water with only Chlorine added to it will quickly lose the Chlorine (via off-gassing), which is why you can use water in aquariums after simply aerating it with an air stone and air pump, or by creating surface turbulence, which increases gas exchange. Actually, just leaving water uncovered for a day will get rid of simple Chlorine, and the ease with which Chlorine leaves water is the reason Chloramine was developed and came into common use in the mid/late '80s. This is also why aquarium product companies came out with new tap-water treatments such as Kordon's "Amquel" in addition to their "Novaqua" product, because simple de-chlorinators alone couldn't break the chemical bond and make the water safe for aquatic animals.

Chloramine can only be quickly removed from water by first breaking the chemical bond between the ammonia and the Chlorine, after which each must be dealt with separately, since both are toxic to aquatic animals. I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that "Chloramines not as deadly as chlorine", since they both do the same thing, except that chloramine does it far longer than basic Chlorine by itself. If they could, I think your frogs and tadpoles would tell you otherwise, as well.

Amphibians take in much of the oxygen they need through their skin, which also means that they are more susceptible to chemicals in the water than even some fish (not including scaleless fish, which for the same reason--very porous skin--are more sensitive to some medications than other fish). As long as their skin remains moist/wet, they are able to take in enough oxygen to stay alive. Some younger tadpoles may possibly have more difficulty than older ones (?), but any frog/froglet with viable legs would be fine if kept moist. Next time, if in a similar situation, it would be better to leave the frogs and tadpoles with even just enough water to cover the tadpoles (or even less) and make sure you detoxify any water before you add it to their aquarium. Always keep in mind how sensitive most amphibians' skin is, which is why they are considered ecological indicators--whatever pollutants are in the environment will be quickly absorbed by the amphibians through their skin. This is also why it is best to not handle them with your bare hands--especially the ones with perpetually moist skin; the salts and oils from your own skin don't do them any good at all. Now if it was a dry-skinned toad, then I'd say it's best to not handle them for YOUR sake, due to the toxins some toads produce in their skin, not to mention that they'll likely pee on you and give you warts! (sic)

Olskule

"May the Fish be with you."

Last edited by Olskule; 12-12-2016 at 07:43 AM. Reason: Added
Olskule is offline  
post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 10:30 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olskule View Post
Wrong. Chloramine is created by chemically bonding Chlorine and ammonia, the purpose of which is to produce a more stable additive to tap water which will prevent biological functions (mostly bacterial growth is targeted) and prevent water-born contamination more dependably. (The ammonia keeps the Chlorine from leaving the water easily.) Water with only Chlorine added to it will quickly lose the Chlorine (via off-gassing), which is why you can use water in aquariums after simply aerating it with an air stone and air pump, or by creating surface turbulence, which increases gas exchange. Actually, just leaving water uncovered for a day will get rid of simple Chlorine, and the ease with which Chlorine leaves water is the reason Chloramine was developed and came into common use in the mid/late '80s. This is also why aquarium product companies came out with new tap-water treatments such as Kordon's "Amquel" in addition to their "Novaqua" product, because simple de-chlorinators alone couldn't break the chemical bond and make the water safe for aquatic animals.

Chloramine can only be quickly removed from water by first breaking the chemical bond between the ammonia and the Chlorine, after which each must be dealt with separately, since both are toxic to aquatic animals. I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that "Chloramines not as deadly as chlorine", since they both do the same thing, except that chloramine does it far longer than basic Chlorine by itself. If they could, I think your frogs and tadpoles would tell you otherwise, as well.

Amphibians take in much of the oxygen they need through their skin, which also means that they are more susceptible to chemicals in the water than even some fish (not including scaleless fish, which for the same reason--very porous skin--are more sensitive to some medications than other fish). As long as their skin remains moist/wet, they are able to take in enough oxygen to stay alive. Some younger tadpoles may possibly have more difficulty than older ones (?), but any frog/froglet with viable legs would be fine if kept moist. Next time, if in a similar situation, it would be better to leave the frogs and tadpoles with even just enough water to cover the tadpoles (or even less) and make sure you detoxify any water before you add it to their aquarium. Always keep in mind how sensitive most amphibians' skin is, which is why they are considered ecological indicators--whatever pollutants are in the environment will be quickly absorbed by the amphibians through their skin. This is also why it is best to not handle them with your bare hands--especially the ones with perpetually moist skin; the salts and oils from your own skin don't do them any good at all. Now if it was a dry-skinned toad, then I'd say it's best to not handle them for YOUR sake, due to the toxins some toads produce in their skin, not to mention that they'll likely pee on you and give you warts! (sic)

Olskule
Yes I screwed up big time. I know Chloramine do not disinfect as well as Chlorine. I was under the false impression that Chloramine would kill in maybe a day or so not instantly.

Do Toads really give people warts ?

Anyway, I am not very happy about all this. I don't even know how frogs survive at all being so fragile. They die when they dry out and when the sprinklers turn in the back yard, it basically is like killer acid for them.

Anyway, I will never make this mistake again.
Overwatch is offline  
post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 03:30 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
Olskule's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overwatch View Post
...Do Toads really give people warts ?...
No, not really. That is why that statement is followed by "(sic)", meaning the writer is aware of the false or incorrect nature of the previous statement or quote. Toads giving you warts is just an old wives' tale. But it is true that they will pee on you; it's a defense response, and considering that most predators hold their prey in their mouths, it's probably a pretty good one, don't you think?

Olskule

"May the Fish be with you."

Last edited by Olskule; 12-12-2016 at 03:33 PM. Reason: Added
Olskule is offline  
post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 04:12 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Fissure's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Sweden, Malmo
Posts: 429
Depends on the predators fetishes. I have heard some like that stuff... :O


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Fissure is offline  
post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 04:46 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
Olskule's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fissure View Post
Depends on the predators fetishes. I have heard some like that stuff... :O
LOL! I wasn't thinking about that type of predator!

Olskule

"May the Fish be with you."
Olskule is offline  
post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 11:43 PM Thread Starter
Banned
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olskule View Post
No, not really. That is why that statement is followed by "(sic)", meaning the writer is aware of the false or incorrect nature of the previous statement or quote. Toads giving you warts is just an old wives' tale. But it is true that they will pee on you; it's a defense response, and considering that most predators hold their prey in their mouths, it's probably a pretty good one, don't you think?

Olskule
I actually did not know what (SIC) means. I thought you were saying like " Sick, gross, disgusting,etc..) Thank you for explaining.

You are saying a frog's defense mechanism is to pee in the mouth of a predator? That is actually really sick and disturbing. My cat use to used this defense whenever the carpet attacked her by peeing all over it. LOL
Overwatch is offline  
post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 11:51 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Fissure's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Sweden, Malmo
Posts: 429
Well in the wild smaller species of cats are not in top of the food chain, they also do this in the wild when attacked by carpets or newly washed laundry.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Fissure is offline  
post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 06:07 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fissure View Post
Depends on the predators fetishes. I have heard some like that stuff... :O
I think I saw something like this on south park last season.
Overwatch is offline  
post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 01:03 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 11,703
Quote:
The Latin adverb sic ("thus"; in full: sic erat scriptum, "thus was it written")[1] inserted after a quoted word or passage, indicates that the quoted matter has been transcribed exactly as found in the source text, complete with any erroneous or archaic spelling, surprising assertion, faulty reasoning, or other matter that might otherwise be taken as an error of transcription.

The usual usage is to inform the reader that any errors or apparent errors in quoted material do not arise from errors in the course of the transcription, but are intentionally reproduced, exactly as they appear in the source text. It is generally placed inside brackets to indicate that it is not part of the quoted matter.

Sic may also be used derisively, to call attention to the original writer's spelling mistakes or erroneous logic
for fun.....

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."
jeffkrol is offline  
post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
Banned
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
for fun.....
Wow, is everyone here a PH.D in English literature ?
Overwatch is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome