Using needle to inject liquid ferts into substrate. Does it work? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-30-2016, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
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Using needle to inject liquid ferts into substrate. Does it work?

Just wondering if it works and if it helps improve efficiency?

I always thought diluting the ferts into the water is not very efficient.

Any specifics on how deep to inject and how much? Say for each blob of small carpeting plant or stemmed plants?

Thanks!


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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-30-2016, 06:30 PM
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No. This is just making things more complicated.

Your goal is provide non-limiting amounts of nutrients which should provide enough for all plants to grow properly. If you think your plants are not getting enough ferts then simply increase the dose and not worry too much on how you dose the ferts.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-30-2016, 09:26 PM
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+1 to Ry I wouldn't bother doing that


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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-30-2016, 09:53 PM
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#1 to both replies if you have good movement in your tank it will disperse to the plants but you could try it as an experiment but I don't think you will see a difference...
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-30-2016, 10:16 PM
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If you're concerned about (i'm assuming) dry ferts dissolving into the tank. You can does into a hob filter and the water flowing over anything that doesn't disolve instantly will disolve the rest and spread it around the tank evenly


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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PandaLoach View Post
Just wondering if it works and if it helps improve efficiency?

I always thought diluting the ferts into the water is not very efficient.

Any specifics on how deep to inject and how much? Say for each blob of small carpeting plant or stemmed plants?

Thanks!


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I used to do this in my 20G long. I only did it because the substrate was pool filter sand so I thought it would keep the fert down there (My goal was to have more fert in the substrate than in the water column). My pearl weed was not growing very well before that, after injected flourish comprehensive it did start to grow but I also used Osmoscote plus root tab so I'm not sure which one was working. I injecting flourish comprehensive every other day at 5 ml and going about 1 inch deep under all the plant root. I'm not doing this anymore cause it's a lot more work than just dump it in the tank.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 02:23 PM
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Plant Stomta according to literature, allows for plant's to take up oxygen ,CO2,and nutrient's across their leaves either with leaves above water or below.
Adaptation's of hydrophytes explains it a bit if one cares to google it.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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Plant Stomta according to literature, allows for plant's to take up oxygen ,CO2,and nutrient's across their leaves either with leaves above water or below.

Adaptation's of hydrophytes explains it a bit if one cares to google it.


So meaning technically it works after adaptation both ways.

I was thinking the injections reduces nutritions in the water and allows plants to have a priority to absorb them thus reducing potential algae bloom.

I did put some plant fertilizers at the bottom but not specific tabs. So was wondering if I should do this.


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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-31-2016, 08:55 PM
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The substrate is in the water column. Water flows through the substrate. (if it doesn't you have serious issues, gas pockets etc) If you inject into the substrate it ends up in the water column. That's why slow release ferts are typically used in the root tabs.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-01-2016, 12:25 AM
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It would accomplish little, if anything at all. Like Kubla said, your substrate particles are large enough to allow water to flow through relatively easily (even though it may not seem like it since it's so small.)
So I would think that it would indeed cause a higher concentration of ferts down there, but only for a very short amount of time (I can't imagine more than an hour or so,) before it "dilutes" into the water column where it will remain in equilibrium (relatively.)

Interesting though and I encourage experimentation. Keep us informed.
I would think that you would want to inject as deep as you can go, right under the plants you wish to boost, depending on how much time and attention you want to give. The ferts end up in the same place, ya know? So it shouldn't hurt and may help a tad. Go for it!


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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-01-2016, 12:45 AM
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if you want ferts in the substrate why not just use root tabs?

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-01-2016, 05:41 AM Thread Starter
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if you want ferts in the substrate why not just use root tabs?


I would next rebuild but I don't want to disrupt the eco as I have a few other plants fish shrimp and snails in it.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxhrbal View Post
It would accomplish little, if anything at all. Like Kubla said, your substrate particles are large enough to allow water to flow through relatively easily (even though it may not seem like it since it's so small.)
So I would think that it would indeed cause a higher concentration of ferts down there, but only for a very short amount of time (I can't imagine more than an hour or so,) before it "dilutes" into the water column where it will remain in equilibrium (relatively.)

Interesting though and I encourage experimentation. Keep us informed.
I would think that you would want to inject as deep as you can go, right under the plants you wish to boost, depending on how much time and attention you want to give. The ferts end up in the same place, ya know? So it shouldn't hurt and may help a tad. Go for it!


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Thanks. Hope to find out before I try. Maybe will do it on one clump and keep a log.


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Btw, this is my tank. The HCs been planted for almost 3 months now. Because of high temperature, it's not growing but the temp has come down now so hope to see it go wild.









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Last edited by Darkblade48; 11-02-2016 at 08:43 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-03-2016, 01:18 PM
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Nice tank. What plants are in the back? And what fish are those? Cardinal tetras?


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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-04-2016, 06:48 AM Thread Starter
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@maxhrbal I had a mix of neons and cardinals before they were all murdered by my mishandling of the CO2. I try to put it behind me. Had unstocked for about two weeks and added some cleaners for now until the post dead fish trauma goes away.

I have 5 types of plants other than the HC. On the left are a mix of rotala wallichii and some other species that looks almost the same but in complete light green with more sparse leaves along the stem (I'm all for the looks and didn't do any research early on).

In the middle a few stems of alternanthera reineckii rosanervig that are recently added and not on the picture (will post some new ones soon)

On the back right is ludwigia repens 'Rubin' and in front, hydrocotyle verticillata.

I'm only identifying them from tropica so I'm not 100% sure if I'm correct with the names.

The rotalas are growing through the roof earlier on until I trimmed them. Unfortunately now the best looking parts (red tips) are gone. I only researched how to trim them until after. But I'll do better next time.

The hydrocotyle share spreading like weed also. I need to cut into the soil to keep them from coming out and covering the light for the HC. If I'm doing this next time it should be HC first before I add any of these.

I've had several issues with unequal demand for lights also. So earlier on before the hydrocotyle adapted, they turn yellow likely burn by the high lighting.

I am also hing trouble with the rotala getting lots of snails, dirt and some hair algae trapped in the dense bush. So maintenance is a bit more work when I vacuumed the bush and hope not to pick up any shrimps.

I also have lots of pest snails that I sort of ignore.

The fluval edge also traps all the co2 bubbles on the top glass and the small opening to the tank makes access quite cumbersome.

Enough with the the babbling. My target is that one day I only need to spend a couple hours a week to maintain this tank. But MTS already goy me before I have enough knowledge or skills to stabilize this one.....


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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-05-2016, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PandaLoach View Post
@maxhrbal I had a mix of neons and cardinals before they were all murdered by my mishandling of the CO2. I try to put it behind me. Had unstocked for about two weeks and added some cleaners for now until the post dead fish trauma goes away.

I have 5 types of plants other than the HC. On the left are a mix of rotala wallichii and some other species that looks almost the same but in complete light green with more sparse leaves along the stem (I'm all for the looks and didn't do any research early on).

In the middle a few stems of alternanthera reineckii rosanervig that are recently added and not on the picture (will post some new ones soon)

On the back right is ludwigia repens 'Rubin' and in front, hydrocotyle verticillata.

I'm only identifying them from tropica so I'm not 100% sure if I'm correct with the names.

The rotalas are growing through the roof earlier on until I trimmed them. Unfortunately now the best looking parts (red tips) are gone. I only researched how to trim them until after. But I'll do better next time.

The hydrocotyle share spreading like weed also. I need to cut into the soil to keep them from coming out and covering the light for the HC. If I'm doing this next time it should be HC first before I add any of these.

I've had several issues with unequal demand for lights also. So earlier on before the hydrocotyle adapted, they turn yellow likely burn by the high lighting.

I am also hing trouble with the rotala getting lots of snails, dirt and some hair algae trapped in the dense bush. So maintenance is a bit more work when I vacuumed the bush and hope not to pick up any shrimps.

I also have lots of pest snails that I sort of ignore.

The fluval edge also traps all the co2 bubbles on the top glass and the small opening to the tank makes access quite cumbersome.

Enough with the the babbling. My target is that one day I only need to spend a couple hours a week to maintain this tank. But MTS already goy me before I have enough knowledge or skills to stabilize this one.....


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Very nice tank. Always a shame when fish die in a preventable fashion. But it happens to everyone I'm sure and that's how we learn sometimes. I'm starting a Dutch tank so I will be utilizing some if not all of those species as well and I'm only now starting to actually study plants (how to propagate, trim etc.) and I see things can get quite intricate. I've had to start a care sheet book. I foresee, like you, having unequal demand for lighting creating lots of problems. It's very difficult to design an aquascape picking plants that require the same conditions. I'm hoping most plants will adapt, given close enough water parameters.
I also ignore the snail problem. I have so many, that I indeed consider their bio load haha. I also will only be using liquid carbon, which will be interesting.
Good luck with the tank. Post some pictures throughout.

Max


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