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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-04-2016, 01:00 AM Thread Starter
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I need to figure out why my cherry shrimp are dying. Any help? I'm lost on this one. I think my parameters are fine. They seem lethargic and not eating well. Dying one by one with a white band on their backs like they are not molting well. I am finding molts. Established tank. Thanks

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5
Ph 7.9
Gh 11
Kh 6
Temp 77
Tds is 250
Copper 0

Getting poor plant growth as well, but I'm low tech no co2 no ferts.
Temp is monitored with my APEX, a fan and a heater.
Getting a lot of surface oils and my output is low. Maybe low oxygen levels?
I'm feeding NLS crustacean formula, NLS all purpose and Kens premium veggie sticks with calcium.

Last edited by Couesfanatic; 06-12-2016 at 05:20 PM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-04-2016, 01:12 AM
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I'm not an expert but from what I've read you want 0 ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and your GH might be a tad high... I am experiencing some similar problems and deaths (white band), and anxiously awaiting my new GH and TDS kit because the API test kit didn't work...


Dwarf Shrimp Water Parameters ? DiscoBee

Quote:
Originally Posted by Couesfanatic View Post
I need to figure out why my cherry shrimp are dying. Any help? I'm lost on this one. I think my parameters are fine. They seem lethargic and not eating well. Dying one by one with a white band on their backs like they are not molting well. I am finding molts. Established tank. Thanks

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5
Ph 7.9
Gh 11
Kh 6
Temp 77
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-04-2016, 01:21 AM Thread Starter
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Well I should have some nitrates, so I think i'm fine there.

Bump: Pic of the shrimp:
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-04-2016, 01:33 AM
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This kind of problem can be caused by a diet that is too high in protein. Cherry shrimp do best on a mostly vegetarian diet. Ditch the NL, and feed them something like Repashy Soilent Green. Or don't feed them at all. They will probably be all right grazing on the algae and biofilm in your tank, at least for awhile.

It might also help to add a little iodine to the tank water. Kent Marine Iodine or Iodide. Sold as marine tank supplements.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-04-2016, 01:54 AM Thread Starter
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These shrimp have only been in the tank a week. They were healthy in the tank of the breeder. This is the second batch that has died from being in my tank. Different seller last time.

I'll switch to just the Kens vegetable for now and see how it goes. Any other ideas?

Last edited by Couesfanatic; 06-04-2016 at 02:13 AM. Reason: add
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-04-2016, 08:46 PM Thread Starter
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Getting more deaths. All with the white band like they are having molting issues. I'm beginning to think the lat batch had an infection that lingered in the tank.
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-06-2016, 04:48 PM
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pH is a tad high but they are resilient little buggers generally. You might just be lacking some nutrient they need for their exo... or you could have some copper in your water.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-12-2016, 05:15 PM Thread Starter
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Just got the copper test in. No copper in the tank water or tap. Still at a loss..

My otto's are fine. It's gotta be something shrimp related.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-13-2016, 03:28 PM
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Do you give them any food with calcium? They need calcium for their exo and it helps in the molting process. I give my cherries pellets every other day that I got from Aquatic Arts or you could get some cuttlebone to dissolve in the water.


The oily water sounds like you don't have any surface agitation or a bubbler device. While I am no expert, my shrimps like when there is surface agitation and they will swim and play in it. If you have a HOB filter try lowering the water level a little to get more surface agitation and see how they react to it. When I didn't have any surface agitation in my planted tank I got the same oily water film on top of mine as well.

Last edited by Bad Kitty; 06-13-2016 at 03:41 PM. Reason: additional info
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-13-2016, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randym View Post
This kind of problem can be caused by a diet that is too high in protein. Cherry shrimp do best on a mostly vegetarian diet. Ditch the NL, and feed them something like Repashy Soilent Green. Or don't feed them at all. They will probably be all right grazing on the algae and biofilm in your tank, at least for awhile.

It might also help to add a little iodine to the tank water. Kent Marine Iodine or Iodide. Sold as marine tank supplements.
I too have read where a high protein diet can be useful in encouraging breeding but has negative consequences if used as a staple diet.
However would the speed at which the shrimp are dying (I believe it was said to be within a week) indicate the high protein food being fed as chief suspect? Would their relatively short survival time not indicate a water parameter issue?

I've also read where iodine encourages and promotes healthy molts. I use seachem Fresh Trace which I believe is a source of iodine??? Have had all healthy molts to date.
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-13-2016, 04:19 PM
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Have you ever used any meds in this tank? If so, what exact meds? (doesn't have to be copper based)

Do you happen to know the seller's water parameters?
What method of acclimation and for how long did you acclimate them?
Neos are generally hardy and can adapt to your water params, but if they weren't acclimated gradually and their water chemistry was suddenly changed drastically, it can cause issues (though they would have normally died within the first couple days or so).

You haven't used any Excel or Osmocote+ right?
How's your water changes? (how often and what % water replaced)

Besides the tissue turning white (necrosis), is there any color change (copperish color) to the tissue or shell?
If you had low oxygen levels, you would see the shrimps hanging around the water surface a lot.

If you suspect bacterial infections, you can use Tetracycline, Oxytetracycline (better) or Minocycline (best of the 3), all of which are shrimp safe.

Another member posted a link to water parameters. If doable and you can't figure out what's going wrong, I would try those params (you can cut your GH, KH, TDS by mixing R/O or distilled water). While plenty of people have kept their Neos in similar or even higher params than yours, those shrimp may have had more time to adapt slowly. I'm not sure what all you have in your tank, but the shrimp, otos and even the plants would appreciate cooler water.

Seaweed (Nori) has a good amount of Iodine in it, which can help with molts.
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-13-2016, 05:16 PM
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Alternatively, Indian Almond leaves are great for shrimp and have anti-bacterial and anti-fungal properties, and keep water just about perfect for the shrimpies. From your parameters and information it sounds like it could be a few things or a combination of things:

1) it is not one specific problem, but a multitude of different things being a little off (Almond leaves would help with this).

2) The shrimp were not acclimated properly and are dying of shock.

3) There is an infection in the tank. (I doubt this).

4) Too many water changes or too much water changed.

5) Temperature swings (mainly, do you have AC? Water could get much warmer than the temp you have it set to).

6) Also I just realized you make no mention of treating your water with anything before putting it in the tank. Get some Prime! I would put money on it that this is your problem, if you don't treat your water.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-13-2016, 09:26 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterLife View Post
Have you ever used any meds in this tank? If so, what exact meds? (doesn't have to be copper based)

Do you happen to know the seller's water parameters?
What method of acclimation and for how long did you acclimate them?
Neos are generally hardy and can adapt to your water params, but if they weren't acclimated gradually and their water chemistry was suddenly changed drastically, it can cause issues (though they would have normally died within the first couple days or so).

You haven't used any Excel or Osmocote+ right?
How's your water changes? (how often and what % water replaced)

Besides the tissue turning white (necrosis), is there any color change (copperish color) to the tissue or shell?
If you had low oxygen levels, you would see the shrimps hanging around the water surface a lot.

If you suspect bacterial infections, you can use Tetracycline, Oxytetracycline (better) or Minocycline (best of the 3), all of which are shrimp safe.

Another member posted a link to water parameters. If doable and you can't figure out what's going wrong, I would try those params (you can cut your GH, KH, TDS by mixing R/O or distilled water). While plenty of people have kept their Neos in similar or even higher params than yours, those shrimp may have had more time to adapt slowly. I'm not sure what all you have in your tank, but the shrimp, otos and even the plants would appreciate cooler water.

Seaweed (Nori) has a good amount of Iodine in it, which can help with molts.
No meds ever used in this tank.

This is the second batch to die in my tank. Both from different sellers.

I do a 20% water change every week or every other week. It's not this.

No excel, no osmocote.

No color change on the shrimp except tuning a little purple after death and then losing color. No copper coloring. White band is appearing on the shrimp as shown above.

I haven't tried any meds.

It's not an acclimation problem. I've been doing this for years. Both sets of shrimp were acclimated.

Not a temp problem. I have AC. My tank is regulated by my Apex, heater and fan. It never varies more than 1 degree from 77.

I've raised my Eheim output and have better oxygen in the tank now with less surface film. I'm also running my Eheim skimmer more often. The problem wasn't bad to begin with.

Food i've listed earlier in this thread, but for now i've been feeding Kens premium veggie with calcium.

I use prime every water change, dosed according to the instructions.

Only other fauna in this tank is 3 ottocinclus which are doing fine.

I added moss a while back on some SS mesh. I've contacted the sellers and the moss was not dipped in anything before shipping. Possible that the SS mesh had lingering chemicals and it wasn't washed off?? I quickly rinsed them before use.

I'm beginning this is something random like a contamination of soap, cleaning supplies or something else from the air or from a bucket.

Last edited by Couesfanatic; 06-13-2016 at 09:34 PM. Reason: add
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-15-2016, 03:58 AM
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In regards to the contaminant idea - def make sure that there's nothing being sprayed anywhere near your tanks like room scent, cleaners or hygiene products. It will def end up in the water.

Grasping at straws here, but what's the substrate? It looks like flourite but figured I'd check just in case. If it's something not made for aquariums, there's the slight chance it could have something in there. Also you could try changing the food. As weird as it seems, I was feeding a food that was all veggie and should have had my shrimp thriving, and instead they were dying off. Changed to a different one and the problem went away. Also is the tank new? Sometimes a new tank just has natural fluctuations that could be causing problems.

Like I said, grasping at straws, but since you seem to have accounted for everything else, I figured I'd throw those out there.
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-15-2016, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randym View Post
This kind of problem can be caused by a diet that is too high in protein. Cherry shrimp do best on a mostly vegetarian diet. Ditch the NL, and feed them something like Repashy Soilent Green. Or don't feed them at all. They will probably be all right grazing on the algae and biofilm in your tank, at least for awhile.

It might also help to add a little iodine to the tank water. Kent Marine Iodine or Iodide. Sold as marine tank supplements.

New life spectrum is largely fruit/ vegetable matter (check the label sometime)
Iodide at half dose suggested for marine tank.
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