? Fert masters, enter!? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-19-2010, 06:10 PM Thread Starter
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? Fert masters, enter!?

Mr. Hopkins told me I needed these ferts (CSM+B, KH2PO4) for healthy growth, and after reading more random posts in the fert section, I decided I should call GLA and ask them what they thought about using those two. I was told by someone there that I also needed KNO3 and also K2SO4...

I bought some from another TPT member... Thanks guys!

Heres the thing. Im looking at the dosing sticky, and noticed that it makes little mention of when to, or should use K2SO4.

I dont want to think that GLA just told me I needed the two, to make a sale... I want to be wrong. What do you think?

Also can I mix these two (KNO3,K2SO4) into one solution, if I match them per ml dose via Chuck Planted Aquarium Calculator?


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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-19-2010, 06:20 PM
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K2SO4 doses the same as KH2P04.

KH2P04 is P and K combined into one powder, personally I also like to dose K2S04 for the extra P in my high-tech tanks but for medium-tech or lower tanks you don't need it since your already getting more P than the plants are going to uptake.

~

Yes GLA is a business, and yes allot of there recommendations are geared towards a sale but that's not always a bad thing. In your instance I've noted your a bit of a light/C02 freak so I'd have given you the same advice they did.

~

Yep you can mix them together.

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-19-2010, 06:35 PM
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K2so4= A stand alone potassium salt used for dosing K
kh2po4= Used for phosphate dosing, clearly the 2 are not the same even though they do have a common element(potassium) Phosphate being the difference.
KNo3= Nitrate also have K.

yes you are dosing a little k with the other 2 salts, but I prefer to know I have adequate amounts of each.

And no Bradac56, a lot of our recommendations are not geared to sale, but to help our fellow hobbyist based on how we prefer to dose our tanks. Some folks have wacky h2o parameters and dosing extra K will not do any harm.
I think having all your bases covered is a healthy practice. especially if your not one to test your water conditions regularly. I myself prefer to test, instead of assume or guess.

Mixing all 3 salts will be fine, just keep your csm and phosphates separate.


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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-19-2010, 06:35 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks... I like doing business with them, and will continue to do so, but was really unsure about that. I thought they were esentially the same, but again, not sure.

It will be easier to mix them, and would have made a threesome concoction from the macro's, but already made KH2PO4 solution and have been dosing from the bottle. So Im unsure how much is actually in there.

I guess I could measure how much KH2PO4 is left and mix the other two with it accordingly. Yes? or just make a new solution of the other two?

And finally, I seem to have the idea that dosing macros and micros could do something funny... Why?


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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-19-2010, 06:37 PM
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Dosing CSM with your phosphates will lead your iron to precipitate(cloud up). Try to keep them separate.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-19-2010, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Leaf Aquariums View Post
K2so4= A stand alone potassium salt used for dosing K
kh2po4= Used for phosphate dosing, clearly the 2 are not the same even though they do have a common element(potassium) Phosphate being the difference.
KNo3= Nitrate also have K.

yes you are dosing a little k with the other 2 salts, but I prefer to know I have adequate amounts of each.

And no Bradac56, a lot of our recommendations are not geared to sale, but to help our fellow hobbyist based on how we prefer to dose our tanks. Some folks have wacky h2o parameters and dosing extra K will not do any harm.
I think having all your bases covered is a healthy practice. especially if your not one to test your water conditions regularly. I myself prefer to test, instead of assume or guess.

Mixing all 3 salts will be fine, just keep your csm and phosphates separate.


Regards,
Orlando
Thanks O- It just threw me of when I looked a the dosing guide sticky and didnt see one of the ferts I was recommended. I do trust GLA, and obviously bought the recommended two because of this trust! Thanks for responding, and clearing the air. BTW are you psychic or just do a search for GLA every hour? Haha... Thanks Orlando -Aaron Gifford

And will do on the separation.


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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-19-2010, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Leaf Aquariums View Post
K2so4= A stand alone potassium salt used for dosing K
kh2po4= Used for phosphate dosing, clearly the 2 are not the same even though they do have a common element(potassium) Phosphate being the difference.
KNo3= Nitrate also have K.

yes you are dosing a little k with the other 2 salts, but I prefer to know I have adequate amounts of each.

And no Bradac56, a lot of our recommendations are not geared to sale, but to help our fellow hobbyist based on how we prefer to dose our tanks. Some folks have wacky h2o parameters and dosing extra K will not do any harm.
I think having all your bases covered is a healthy practice. especially if your not one to test your water conditions regularly. I myself prefer to test, instead of assume or guess.

Mixing all 3 salts will be fine, just keep your csm and phosphates separate.


Regards,
Orlando
I didn't mean that to be a slight it's just the way it is. Your a business so people are going to think that of you no matter what you do. It's more about the quality of your answers that will get graded on by the slightly more knowledge hobbyists and as I said I thought it was a spot on answer in his case.

- Brad

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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-19-2010, 06:46 PM
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Thanks Brad!! More and more each day it gets harder to post as a sponsor and hobbyist on boards. After all, Im just a hobbyist



I eat lunch at my desk, I saw a post where a fellow hobbyist needed help and clicked! What do you know! HAHA!
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-19-2010, 06:47 PM Thread Starter
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New Question!!!!!


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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-20-2010, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
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Ok I got the KNO3 and K2SO4 today...

Using Chucks Planted Aquarium Calculator, I measured 5.50 Tablespoons(least accurate) kno3 into 500ml distilled water.

CPAC recommends a target nitrate from kno3 ppm of 5, and the above solution gives .33ppm per ml. I dose 15 ml as a standard(to make my life easier) for all of my ferts, based on the original suggested dose of CSM+B for a 75 gallon tank. Multiply .33x15ml leaves me with a solution measuring 4.95ppm in 15ml

The above measurment also leaves .21ppm potassium from kno3 per ml.
.21x15=3.15ppm in 15ml.

Here is the problem.
CPAC recommends 20ppm potassium.
I have 3.15 of 20, with 16.85ppm shy.
In order to make a solution able to dose 20ppm potassium, I would have to add close to 400 grams of K2SO4 to the batch...
K2SO4 has a solubility of 12 grams per 100 ml water.
It is physically impossible to reduce 400 grams of K2SO4 into 500ml water, not to mention the solubility of the 500ml is already reduced by the KNO3...

WHAAAAA???????!!!!!!!

I pulled my hair out on this for a while before throwing out reason, and just randomly guessing and reducing 2 Tablespoons K2SO4 in to the 500ml KNO3 solution. This only adds 1.35ppm extra potassium leaving a total value of 4.5ppm potassium from KNO3 & K2SO4.

Is 20 ppm the real target value?
How do I reach that level?
Am I doing something wrong?

The example on the sticky says he doses 1/8 tsp K2SO4 into his 46 bowfront. If I double that I get around 90 gallons and 1/4 tsp K2SO4, that has 1.98 ppm potassium every other day... thats a 10th of CPAC recomendation for potassium?

Im confused and am sure you are by now too. But maybe someone can understand my confusion and point me in a new direction, before I flushing plants(not really).


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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-20-2010, 05:29 PM Thread Starter
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Please help!?!


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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-20-2010, 06:45 PM
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Hi Aaron,

Have you tried using the 'fertilator' on APC (http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...fertilator.php)? That tool is easier to follow calculating your target ppm... As an example, to get the concentration from the chemicals you'd like to add in your tank, you'll just key in the tank's volume, select the product source of your N, P, K, Ca etc., their amount in grams/ml/tsp, then hit calculate... The answer it will give you is the amount you're adding to your tank in ppm... Hope that helps...

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-20-2010, 07:26 PM
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You can figure out the concentration of nitrates, phosphates, potassium you want in the water, then use a calculator or some chemical wizardry to figure out how many grams of which compound to use for your tank of water to reach those concentrations. That becomes drudgery after a few weeks. Or, you can adopt the idea that having an excess of each of those nutrients at all times, called having "non-limiting" amounts of each, is the way to go. Then you just go to https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fe...-regimes_.html and dose what it says to dose. That makes it an easy, easy every other day job.

A third way is to get a couple of dosing bottles, http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/aq...nser-16oz.html Then add 16 doses of the KNO3 and KH2PO4 to one bottle, and add 16 ounces of water, shake it up, and dose one ounce every other day. Use the other bottle to mix 16 doses of CSM+B with 16 ounces of water and dose one ounce every other day. This is so easy you can think about your homework while doing it.

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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-20-2010, 08:08 PM Thread Starter
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Hoppy, I know thats what you were trying to tell me before. I didnt get those cool graduated containers, like you also previously suggested, so I had to go by the forum dosing guide, and CPAC, together because of missing information in the guide i.e. target ppm. I got those values from the calculator.

Trying to reach those values for potassium is almost ten times more potassium than the forum is saying to use. What, do I try to find a middle ground without the forums opinion on target ppm?

I really regret getting those bottles now, can I find them at a hardware store of something. And Hoppy you said to get the 500's correct?

J.R.R. - I think the Chucks Planted Aquarium Calculator, is the same as the fertalator though. Not sure about the fertalator though, and am assuming its internet based software, opposed to a resident(installed) program on my PC. From what you said, CPAC is the same thing! Thanks for the info that could help someone else though.


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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-20-2010, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler79durdan View Post
Hoppy, I know thats what you were trying to tell me before. I didnt get those cool graduated containers, like you also previously suggested, so I had to go by the forum dosing guide, and CPAC, together because of missing information in the guide i.e. target ppm. I got those values from the calculator.

Trying to reach those values for potassium is almost ten times more potassium than the forum is saying to use. What, do I try to find a middle ground without the forums opinion on target ppm?

I really regret getting those bottles now, can I find them at a hardware store of something. And Hoppy you said to get the 500's correct?

J.R.R. - I think the Chucks Planted Aquarium Calculator, is the same as the fertalator though. Not sure about the fertalator though, and am assuming its internet based software, opposed to a resident(installed) program on my PC. From what you said, CPAC is the same thing! Thanks for the info that could help someone else though.
Not many places locally carry those bottles, I've got 7 of them in one of my FS threads if you're looking. The 500s allow you to more at once.

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