My personal experience with completely dosing dry and EI + Liquid Fe and Micros - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-26-2010, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
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My personal experience with completely dosing dry and EI + Liquid Fe and Micros

The tank im talking about is a high tech 37g with a Catalina 4x24w t5ho fixture, pressurized co2 and ADA AS for substrate.

For the longest time I dosed EI for Macros (NPK) and either Seachem Flourish or TPN for Micros. I also dosed Seachem Fe for iron during that time aswell. For that time I had great results growing robust stands of plants some would call harder to grow with no problem.

After I grew tired of spending ~$30 for 2L of the Seachem ferts (and even more for the TPN) I researched CSM+b for my micro dosing as it would be a fraction of the cost and just as easy to dose as the Seachem products.

After recieving my CSM+b I dosed according to the EI routine with the addition of the Seachem Fe untill the Fe ran out. Over the course of a month or so after only dosing dry I watched my plants grow to look sickly and almost die. We are talking about Polygonum 'saopaulo', Ludwigia 'pantanal', Ludwigia 'cuba', Rotala 'wallichi', and even a Hydrocotyl sp. I had.

After watching this for a week I decided I needed to get some more Seachem products so I went to a LFS and acquired the Fe since IMO that would have been the main nutrient that my plants were not receiving. Only 2 days later I noticed more vibrant, healthy shoots and an almost dieing of the previous 'sickly' growth and newer growth appearing.

This may be just because I have some more demanding plants but even so I do not believe there can be a substitute for the benefits that liquid seachem Fe can do for your tank.


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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-26-2010, 06:31 PM
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Chelated Iron 10% lb $9.25 This is the price @ Rex's site currently so would not mixing your own Fe also give the same resulting reduction of cost as the CSM+B?
Mixing in 1000ml containers both the CSM+B and Fe work well for me and as you stated the price dry is way under Seachem products. Using distilled water for my solutions (with a bit of Excel added) they remain stable in the bottles throughout the storage period untill empty.




Mixing instructions copied from Rex's site
  • Mix 35 grams of powder with 2 cups (473 ml of water).
  • 1 ml of this solution will raise the iron level in 10 gallons of water by 0.2 ppm.
  • Suggested range for iron is 0.1-0.5 ppm.
1/2lb = 226.79g (converted figures approx.)
enough to mix 6.5 batches of this solution. (3074.5ml)
About 1 1/2 gallons of Fe for $9.25, 2.00 (distilled wtr) and the cost of shipping.


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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-26-2010, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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I would think so. What is the chealator for his Fe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wkndracer View Post
Chelated Iron 10% lb $9.25 This is the price @ Rex's site currently so would not mixing your own Fe also give the same resulting reduction of cost as the CSM+B?
Mixing in 1000ml containers both the CSM+B and Fe work well for me and as you stated the price dry is way under Seachem products. Using distilled water for my solutions (with a bit of Excel added) they remain stable in the bottles throughout the storage period untill empty.




Mixing instructions copied from Rex's site
  • Mix 35 grams of powder with 2 cups (473 ml of water).
  • 1 ml of this solution will raise the iron level in 10 gallons of water by 0.2 ppm.
  • Suggested range for iron is 0.1-0.5 ppm.
1/2lb = 226.79g (converted figures approx.)
enough to mix 6.5 batches of this solution. (3074.5ml)
About 1 1/2 gallons of Fe for $9.25, 2.00 (distilled wtr) and the cost of shipping.


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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-26-2010, 06:41 PM
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Honestly I never asked. The product has been used in all my tanks for over a year so I assume it to be safe. Now that you asked I see myself posting the question on his website LOL


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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-26-2010, 06:45 PM
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Sorry to jump in but how much Excel do you add to keep it stable?
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-26-2010, 06:54 PM
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I also switched to CSM+B as you did. I was a staunch believer in TPN and have used it for years and years. When I made the switch to CSM+B I also noted that my plants suffered. So I switched back to TPN. During that time I also dosed with Seachem Iron and that did not seem to help....maybe the plants need a longer acclimation period when switching to the DRY fert? Not sure. I used my points at Big Als and got the good deal on shipping before the holidays so I just order up a 5 liter jug of TPN. I should be OK for a year or so with that much. But will be watching this thread with great interest.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-26-2010, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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What is the lighting and size of the tank and how often do you dose? I ask because one of the main topics on Fe dosing is the photo sensitivity of the chelated iron and perhaps only having to dose weekly depending on frequency of water changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wkndracer View Post
Honestly I never asked. The product has been used in all my tanks for over a year so I assume it to be safe. Now that you asked I see myself posting the question on his website LOL


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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-26-2010, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
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I assumed Fe was the main cause of the lackluster growth but when I started to dose Seachem Fe and Flourish together that was when I saw the growth I had become accustomed to.

As far as acclimation of the plants between products goes, that could be a possibility but I believe if I had waited much longer I would not have had any plants left to acclimate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdTheEdge View Post
I also switched to CSM+B as you did. I was a staunch believer in TPN and have used it for years and years. When I made the switch to CSM+B I also noted that my plants suffered. So I switched back to TPN. During that time I also dosed with Seachem Iron and that did not seem to help....maybe the plants need a longer acclimation period when switching to the DRY fert? Not sure. I used my points at Big Als and got the good deal on shipping before the holidays so I just order up a 5 liter jug of TPN. I should be OK for a year or so with that much. But will be watching this thread with great interest.


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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-26-2010, 07:27 PM
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Tom Barr has powdered iron gluconate for sale in SnS. This is the same stuff as Seachem at quite a lower price.

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sw...rish-iron.html
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-26-2010, 07:27 PM
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Sorry I missed this but what is "TPN"?
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-26-2010, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
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Sorry I missed this but what is "TPN"?
Tropica Plant Nutrition.

http://www.tropica.dk/article.asp?type=news&id=686
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-26-2010, 08:10 PM
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Thanks.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-26-2010, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StillLearning View Post
Sorry to jump in but how much Excel do you add to keep it stable?
30ml / 500ml bottles and 35ml / 1000ml bottles. I use it on my CSM+B and NO3, without problems and keep the bottles in the cabinet not the fridge (wife happy). Fe, KH2PO4 seem to be stable without it mixing with distilled water., K2SO4, Mg and the Ca's I add dry.


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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-26-2010, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wkndracer View Post
30ml / 500ml bottles and 35ml / 1000ml bottles. I use it on my CSM+B and NO3, without problems and keep the bottles in the cabinet not the fridge (wife happy). Fe, KH2PO4 seem to be stable without it mixing with distilled water., K2SO4, Mg and the Ca's I add dry.
Thank you.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-26-2010, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmith View Post
What is the lighting and size of the tank and how often do you dose? I ask because one of the main topics on Fe dosing is the photo sensitivity of the chelated iron and perhaps only having to dose weekly depending on frequency of water changes.
2 - 75g tanks with Flourite and Eco-Complete mixed substrate. Current 4x54T5HO, one setup with 2- plant grow, 2- 10K the other 2- 67K, 2- 10K mounted on 2" legs over glass tops. The lighting is too much based on Hoppy's rescent PAR posting which explain the GSA on the glass weekly. (nothing on healthy plants or hardscape) These tanks have been dosed via the PPS method daily within 2 hours of the photo period for about 8 months (my spread sheet is at home, I'm at work ). This includes daily Fe in the mix.

The other tanks have lower light levels, 110g mineralized soil (1-67K, 1- 10K, T5HO running one bank until CO2 is set), 55g potting soil substrate (2.3wpg 2- 5K, 2-65K T8NO32w) both with Flourite caps. The last system is a 55g contains plain old tank gravel with rescently (last year) added 15lbs. Flora Base mixed in over several months. This tank has not been dry (completely cleaned) in 20+ years. The substrate has only been disturbed by planting since setup the Flora Base was allowed to naturally mix in over time. These are dosed 3x weekly.

All tanks receive water changes based on rising TDS or NO3 levels not regular schedules.


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