Dry fert dosing 29gal no co2 planted+ 24/7 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-18-2016, 07:41 AM Thread Starter
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Dry fert dosing 29gal no co2 planted+ 24/7

Hello everyone I just got my dry ferts from GLA in the mail today, and I want to make sure I don't OD my tank since I don't have any CO2. I do have liquid CO2 but since I'm not always at home when my light is at its brightest it doesn't get dosed daily.

I'm using the Finnex Planted Tank+ 24/7 on 24/7 mode. My plant list is in my signature but just in case it doesn't show:
Amazon Sword, Anubias Congensis, Marimo Moss Ball, Corkscrew Vals, Duckweed, Dwarf Water Lettuce, Egeria Densa, Java Moss, Red Ludwigia, Moneywort, Salvinia, and Pearl Weed.
There's 2 nerites, 10 blue dream shrimp, and some guppies.
My shrimp will be OK right? I read a lot of posts about these ferts being safe with shrimp so I hope its true.

I got the PPS-Pro Fertilizer Package so I have:
1lb. Plantex CSM+B
1lb. Potassium Nitrate (KN03)
1lb. Mono Potassium Phosphate (KH2P04)
1lb. Potassium Sulfate (K2S04)
1lb. Magnesium Sulfate (MgS04)
2 500ml dispensers

According to the Rotala Butterfly dosing calculator for low-light/weekly dosing I need to add:
MICROS:
1/16 tsp (336 mg) Plantex CSM+B (0.2ppm Fe)
MACROS:
2.45 grams Potassium Sulfate (10ppm K)
1.79 grams Potassium Nitrate (10ppm NO3)
1/32 tsp (157 mg) Mono Potassium Phosphate (1ppm P04)
5.57 grams Magnesium Sulfate (5ppm Mg)

I'm not sure if I should use this mix since I'm not sure if I'm low light, I would think I'm more medium/moderate light but if was the closest option I could find for no CO2.

I also would like to use the dosing bottles that came with it instead of dumping it straight into my tank so I have no idea how much of it to add to RO water to get the concentration this dosing calculator is suggesting. I'm horrible with math so I have no idea where to start. I could add the dry powder straight into the tank at the numbers suggested to skip having to do the math but I wanted to check with the knowledgeable people of this forum before I started.
Are these good numbers to start at?
Do I have to refrigerate the bottles if I premix the ferts?
Any chance someone could tell me how much to mix so I can use the 500ml dosing bottles?

Thanks in advance everyone!
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29g~ Guppies, Blue Pearl Shrimp & 2 Nerites
~ Amazon Sword ~ Anubias Congensis ~ Red Ludwigia
~ Duckweed ~ Dwarf Water Lettuce ~ Moneywort
~ Egeria Densa ~ Java Moss ~ Corkscrew Vals
~ Marimo Moss Ball ~ Salvinia ~Java Moss ~Pearl Weed
~ Red Sword Plant ~ Anubias Petite ~ Phoenix Moss
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-19-2016, 08:01 AM Thread Starter
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CSM+B
4.59g in 475ml h20
PO4 2.15
KN03 24.43
KH2P04 2.15
K2S04 33.39

Ok I'm not sure I'm doing this right but here's what I did. I used a different calculator than the one I posted before (mainly since it required me to do math correctly). I put in 475ml for my bottle size instead of 500ml since I read adding 5ml of glut (excel/CO2 booster) per 100ml helps keep the mixture from going bad. I also set it up so my dosing amount was 30ml to get to the needed ppm so that the mixture wouldn't sit in the dosing bottles for too long.
MICROS:
CSM+B 4.59g (0.2pp Fe)
MACROS:
KN03 24.43g (10ppm N03)
KH2P04 2.15g (1ppm P04)
K2S04 33.39g (10ppm K)

I didn't use the MgS04 since I have hard water already and probably don't need to add any but I'll add a teaspoon or 2 at water changes and then back off on it and look for a difference in the plants. The MgS04 would've been 75.97g for 5ppm Mg for those who were wondering.

Now that I mixed all the ingredients in their respective containers I read that I should let it sit overnight (I guess to make sure its completely dissolved and mixed well?). I'll try and wait for a reply on if this mix will work for a non CO2 tank, if I don't hear from anyone by my next water change I'll go ahead and add the Micro mix then the Macro mix the next day.


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29g~ Guppies, Blue Pearl Shrimp & 2 Nerites
~ Amazon Sword ~ Anubias Congensis ~ Red Ludwigia
~ Duckweed ~ Dwarf Water Lettuce ~ Moneywort
~ Egeria Densa ~ Java Moss ~ Corkscrew Vals
~ Marimo Moss Ball ~ Salvinia ~Java Moss ~Pearl Weed
~ Red Sword Plant ~ Anubias Petite ~ Phoenix Moss
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-19-2016, 11:35 AM
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I only have two suggestions.

You're probably a little heavy on K. K also comes from KNO3 and KH2PO4 and you're getting around 7 ppm of K just from dosing those solutions.
You don't have to dose a weekly dose in one dose. I recommend breaking the doses up into daily or bi-daily.


It's a great starting point IMO. Possibly a little heavy, but if you have the patience to reduce each solution individually, then it's pretty easy to reduce, observe and learn.
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Feel free to edit.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-19-2016, 01:05 PM
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Looks like you've got it all covered. Nothing to do now but sit back for a couple of weeks and monitor growth and algae levels.

Your nutrient and light levels are at the higher end for a low tech. I'd recommend adding Glut daily to make sure the plants are growing as well as possible and for it's algaecidal qualities. Without Glut, this may turn bad with that light level.

If you feed your fish daily it's easy to add some Glut once the fish have stopped feeding. That's my method and keeps things consistent.

We don't have the Finnex 24/7 in my country. Is it dimmable?
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-19-2016, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audionut View Post
I only have two suggestions.

You're probably a little heavy on K. K also comes from KNO3 and KH2PO4 and you're getting around 7 ppm of K just from dosing those solutions.
You don't have to dose a weekly dose in one dose. I recommend breaking the doses up into daily or bi-daily.


It's a great starting point IMO. Possibly a little heavy, but if you have the patience to reduce each solution individually, then it's pretty easy to reduce, observe and learn.
Ok. Thing it would be OK if I only dosed 10 ml 3x a week until I'm sure I won't get a crazy amount of algae? I'll just do Micros Mon/Wed/Fri and Macros Tue/Thur/Sat. When I feel comfy that I won't get a crazy increase in algae I'll dose bigger amounts 2x or 1x a week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Straight shooter View Post
Looks like you've got it all covered. Nothing to do now but sit back for a couple of weeks and monitor growth and algae levels.

Your nutrient and light levels are at the higher end for a low tech. I'd recommend adding Glut daily to make sure the plants are growing as well as possible and for it's algaecidal qualities. Without Glut, this may turn bad with that light level.

If you feed your fish daily it's easy to add some Glut once the fish have stopped feeding. That's my method and keeps things consistent.

We don't have the Finnex 24/7 in my country. Is it dimmable?
I do feed them daily sometimes 2x a day. I can add Glut daily my main concern is it wouldn't always be able to add it before the lights were at their brightest.
The Finnex 24/7 is dimmable if you aren't using it in 24/7 mode, I am currently using it in 24/7 mode but I might just put it on a timer if I have any algae issues.


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29g~ Guppies, Blue Pearl Shrimp & 2 Nerites
~ Amazon Sword ~ Anubias Congensis ~ Red Ludwigia
~ Duckweed ~ Dwarf Water Lettuce ~ Moneywort
~ Egeria Densa ~ Java Moss ~ Corkscrew Vals
~ Marimo Moss Ball ~ Salvinia ~Java Moss ~Pearl Weed
~ Red Sword Plant ~ Anubias Petite ~ Phoenix Moss
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-20-2016, 02:50 AM
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Glut has a half life of ~10-11hrs so daily dosing at any time is good, doesn't have to be before or during the photoperiod or anything.

Last edited by Straight shooter; 02-20-2016 at 03:05 AM. Reason: edit
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-20-2016, 03:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewet88 View Post
Ok. Thing it would be OK if I only dosed 10 ml 3x a week until I'm sure I won't get a crazy amount of algae? I'll just do Micros Mon/Wed/Fri and Macros Tue/Thur/Sat. When I feel comfy that I won't get a crazy increase in algae I'll dose bigger amounts 2x or 1x a week.
That will be fine.

Feel free to edit.
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-20-2016, 08:45 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Straight shooter View Post
Glut has a half life of ~10-11hrs so daily dosing at any time is good, doesn't have to be before or during the photoperiod or anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audionut View Post
That will be fine.
Cool thanks for the help everyone!
I'll start dosing Glut daily, right now I'm using API CO2 booster but I'll order some Glut so I can start making it myself and save some money. I never knew how long it lasted in the tank so that is some very useful info.

I dosed micros today so tomorrow macros and Sunday water change. Should I be dosing on water change day? Right now with the schedule I picked for dosing Sunday wouldn't have any nutrients added.


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29g~ Guppies, Blue Pearl Shrimp & 2 Nerites
~ Amazon Sword ~ Anubias Congensis ~ Red Ludwigia
~ Duckweed ~ Dwarf Water Lettuce ~ Moneywort
~ Egeria Densa ~ Java Moss ~ Corkscrew Vals
~ Marimo Moss Ball ~ Salvinia ~Java Moss ~Pearl Weed
~ Red Sword Plant ~ Anubias Petite ~ Phoenix Moss
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-20-2016, 09:40 AM
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-20-2016, 10:08 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the link I'll be reading over that starting right now, I wish I would've seen it earlier when I was searching around. How is that not a sticky?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audionut View Post
I only have two suggestions.

You're probably a little heavy on K. K also comes from KNO3 and KH2PO4 and you're getting around 7 ppm of K just from dosing those solutions.
You don't have to dose a weekly dose in one dose. I recommend breaking the doses up into daily or bi-daily.

It's a great starting point IMO. Possibly a little heavy, but if you have the patience to reduce each solution individually, then it's pretty easy to reduce, observe and learn.
OK so I went back and redid some calculation (OK the calculator did the calculations but I put in the numbers). In order to get the K down a bit would you recommend reducing all 3 Macros a little or just reducing the K2S04?
If I reduce the K2S04 to 8.35g it will give me 2.5ppm of K and 1ppm of S. That will have me around 10ppm total of K after dosing all 3 instead of 17ppm, but it will reduce my Sulfur from 4ppm to 1ppm. I'm not sure how important Sulfur is for the planted aquarium.


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29g~ Guppies, Blue Pearl Shrimp & 2 Nerites
~ Amazon Sword ~ Anubias Congensis ~ Red Ludwigia
~ Duckweed ~ Dwarf Water Lettuce ~ Moneywort
~ Egeria Densa ~ Java Moss ~ Corkscrew Vals
~ Marimo Moss Ball ~ Salvinia ~Java Moss ~Pearl Weed
~ Red Sword Plant ~ Anubias Petite ~ Phoenix Moss
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-21-2016, 01:55 AM
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Sulfur is often found in ample quantities in tap water and is not usually considered much in fert dosing. If you dose MGSO4 you'll have plenty of sulfur.
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-21-2016, 07:26 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks @Straight shooter I'll scale back the MGSO4 the next time I mix up a batch of nutrients. I think I technically have like 4 months worth mixed up if I do the 30ml a week. I don't think I can keep the mixture that long without refrigeration so I might have to start mixing smaller doses.

One more question should I jump up the amount I dose every week until I see algae and then back it off? That's what I was told to do in order to find out the correct amount of lighting I needed so I was wondering if I should do the same thing for the nutrients?


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29g~ Guppies, Blue Pearl Shrimp & 2 Nerites
~ Amazon Sword ~ Anubias Congensis ~ Red Ludwigia
~ Duckweed ~ Dwarf Water Lettuce ~ Moneywort
~ Egeria Densa ~ Java Moss ~ Corkscrew Vals
~ Marimo Moss Ball ~ Salvinia ~Java Moss ~Pearl Weed
~ Red Sword Plant ~ Anubias Petite ~ Phoenix Moss
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-21-2016, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewet88 View Post
In order to get the K down a bit would you recommend reducing all 3 Macros a little or just reducing the K2S04?
If I reduce the K2S04 to 8.35g it will give me 2.5ppm of K and 1ppm of S. That will have me around 10ppm total of K after dosing all 3 instead of 17ppm, but it will reduce my Sulfur from 4ppm to 1ppm. I'm not sure how important Sulfur is for the planted aquarium.
As @Straight shooter advises, sulfur is usually plentiful.

It would be best to just reduce the K2SO4 dosing, otherwise you will reduce the dosing of the other nutrients also. It's about bringing K into balance rather then reducing concentrations of the nutrients atm.

I would keep K a little higher then NO3, since you get a little extra N and P from having fish in the tank.

Feel free to edit.
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-22-2016, 12:26 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audionut View Post
As @Straight shooter advises, sulfur is usually plentiful.

It would be best to just reduce the K2SO4 dosing, otherwise you will reduce the dosing of the other nutrients also. It's about bringing K into balance rather then reducing concentrations of the nutrients atm.

I would keep K a little higher then NO3, since you get a little extra N and P from having fish in the tank.
OK so I could just reduce the K2SO4 to get the next batch of K down since I don't have to worry about the sulfur.

So far I think the only thing I should change is the amount of K2SO4 from 33.39g to 8-9g so that I don't have a ridiculous amount of K. That will put me at 10-11 ppm of K every 30ml I dose.

Should I dump out my current Macro mix and redo it with the new K values?


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29g~ Guppies, Blue Pearl Shrimp & 2 Nerites
~ Amazon Sword ~ Anubias Congensis ~ Red Ludwigia
~ Duckweed ~ Dwarf Water Lettuce ~ Moneywort
~ Egeria Densa ~ Java Moss ~ Corkscrew Vals
~ Marimo Moss Ball ~ Salvinia ~Java Moss ~Pearl Weed
~ Red Sword Plant ~ Anubias Petite ~ Phoenix Moss
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-22-2016, 12:56 AM
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Up to you really. K is very versatile, having extra in there isn't going to be detrimental.

Just something to think about next time you do a solution.

Feel free to edit.
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