Active Substrates and Walstad - The Planted Tank Forum
 16Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-14-2019, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Staten Island, NY
Posts: 29
Active Substrates and Walstad

Any Walstad experts here?

What are your thoughts on using active substrate as opposed to the usual gravel and soil substrate? Specifically Fluval Stratum or Seachem Flourite.

What are your thoughts on active substrate on top of soil (for the co2 production)?
philyoosays is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-14-2019, 06:37 PM
Obsessed? Maybe
 
somewhatshocked's Avatar
 
PTrader: (489/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Middle America
Posts: 14,467
Flourite isn't an active substrate.

There's no benefit of using an active substrate on top of soil. If you're going to use an active substrate, just use an active substrate. It's generally too light and non-compacting to be of much benefit to prevent anything in the soil from flooding the water column. People use active substrates because they provide everything one needs in a substrate.

If you want to use soil, use soil with a topper like fine gravel or sand.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

somewhatshocked is online now  
post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-14-2019, 09:53 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: 67212
Posts: 1,277
Here’s Diana’s thread on using safetsorb with soil.

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...-sts-clay.html
DaveKS is online now  
 
post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-15-2019, 03:13 PM
Obsessed? Maybe
 
somewhatshocked's Avatar
 
PTrader: (489/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Middle America
Posts: 14,467
That's a great thread, @DaveKS.

I'd say OP could ask Diana questions directly... but a couple members were straight-up asses to her and she's unfortunately stepped away from the forum.
Edward, JoT, varanidguy and 2 others like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

somewhatshocked is online now  
post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-15-2019, 05:52 PM
Planted Member
 
Tiger15's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 219
If you grow plants in inert media (sand and gravel), you are by definition growing them hydroponically relying on water for all nutrients. You have to regularly dose the water column to sustain growth. EI is essentially a hydroponic culture as it doesn’t require active media.

The Walstad system grow plants in active media (soil) where the nutrients come predominantly from the substrate, and partially from the water column. Eventually, the nutrients in the soil will run out, and you will need to either replace with new soil or dose the water column. In the latter case, you are reverting to hydroponic culture.

All aquatic plants can uptake nutrients from the water column. It’s a myth that heavy rooters such as sword and crypt are heavy root feeder, but in reality their huge roots are developed to anchor in fast moving water than to feed. The chief benefit of active media is carpeting plants as many reported that they spread faster in active media, and at no choice if you use DSM. The chief draw back of active media is that dirt is dirty. Setting up a large volume of dirt in a big tank is a dirty job, considering that you will need to disrupt the dirt to replant many times in the future and replace exhausted dirt every few years
minorhero likes this.
Tiger15 is offline  
post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-15-2019, 08:23 PM
Obsessed? Maybe
 
somewhatshocked's Avatar
 
PTrader: (489/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Middle America
Posts: 14,467
Active media, in terms of the modern hobby, refers to substrates like ADA Aqua Soil Amazonia, UNS Controsoil, SL Aqua, Red Bee Sand, UP Aqua products, et al. "Active" in that they actively buffer water parameters by absorbing kH to lower pH, creating acidic conditions for plants - and in many cases dwarf shrimp.

It'd probably be better phrasing for us to point out that Cryptocoryne can pull nutrients via their roots and their leaves - not that they feed more heavily one way or another. Because they can, indeed, pull in tons via roots. That's not a myth. It's just a "myth" that they only feed one way or the other. I've grown Crypts in Aqua Soil tanks with next to nothing in the water column that blow my mind. I've also grown them in tanks with sand and water column dosing that are equally impressive. And, admittedly, I've occasionally tied crypts and swords to chunks of lava rock so I could easily drop them behind hardscape where I couldn't easily get them buried in substrate and they did really well for several years.

Crypts grow in rivers and streams, so they do need well-developed root systems for anchoring and nutrient-hunting. But some of those habitats eventually dry up or flow slows, nutrients become sparse on occasion in the water column and they begin to rely on those well-developed root systems to feed. In instances where streams disappear on a seasonal or semi-regular basis, those plants also take in water via their root systems.
Desert Pupfish likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

somewhatshocked is online now  
post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 01:06 AM
Planted Member
 
Tiger15's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 219
I think there is a confusion on the definition of active media. The OP referred to Walstad method which is based on nutrient rich soil aka active media in my definition. Your definition of active media is buffering media that will lower pH to benefit soft water fish and shrimp, not the same thing the OP is referring to.

Your explanation on root versus water feeding makes sense. Aquatic plants have the flexibility of nutrient uptake from both roots and water column and not just one or the other. All aquatic plants can be grown hydroponically, meaning that water column dosing alone is sufficient for vigorous growth regardless of substrate. Obviously, if you use DSM with no free water, you need nutrient rich substrate to succeed.
Tiger15 is offline  
post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 04:15 AM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Carolina Beach, NC
Posts: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhatshocked View Post
That's a great thread, @DaveKS.

I'd say OP could ask Diana questions directly... but a couple members were straight-up asses to her and she's unfortunately stepped away from the forum.


WTF? Diana is active in the El Natural forum at Aquatic Plant Central. Head on over there as she’s well respected there.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
GadgetGirl is offline  
post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 04:34 AM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Streetwise's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Vermont, USA
Posts: 466
I work from the DW textbook.

However, that forum gives me more browser warnings than this site, which is still more than I get from my other hobby forums, (https://www.kvraudio.com for example.).

Style: Organic soil, sand, gravel, plants, moss, algae, snails, shrimp, small fish
Tech: Fluval Plant Nano, Top Fin MF10, Tunze 3161, Apex EL
Tanks:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Streetwise is offline  
post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 04:59 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
Edward's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: at home
Posts: 1,308
Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhatshocked View Post
I'd say OP could ask Diana questions directly... but a couple members were straight-up asses to her and she's unfortunately stepped away from the forum.
I believe this was the thread. What can we do to bring @Dianna Walstad back?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Edward is online now  
post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 04:27 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
xjasminex's Avatar
 
PTrader: (19/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: new york
Posts: 1,125
Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhatshocked View Post
That's a great thread, @DaveKS.

I'd say OP could ask Diana questions directly... but a couple members were straight-up asses to her and she's unfortunately stepped away from the forum.


This is so unfortunate, as someone who read her book many years ago I was elated to see her on the forum. She has so much knowledge and practical experience. I couldn’t have achieved what I did with past tanks without her. =[


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
xjasminex is offline  
post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 05:00 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Apple Valley, CA
Posts: 1,640
Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhatshocked View Post
That's a great thread, @DaveKS.

I'd say OP could ask Diana questions directly... but a couple members were straight-up asses to her and she's unfortunately stepped away from the forum.
And it's that type of disrespect and elitism (or whatever you want to call it) that does way more damage to this hobby than helps.

Shame on whoever was rude to her.
Desert Pupfish likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
varanidguy is online now  
post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 05:49 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Staten Island, NY
Posts: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhatshocked View Post
That's a great thread, @DaveKS.

I'd say OP could ask Diana questions directly... but a couple members were straight-up asses to her and she's unfortunately stepped away from the forum.
I actually moved to this forum from another forum because people wouldn't answer simple questions like "When am I done with cycling" and would post replies like, "Stop doing what you're doing and get a filter."

Even on this forum, I get a lot of people who think I'm ignorant, stubborn, and stupid. But the other forum was way worse.
philyoosays is offline  
post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 05:59 PM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Maryland
Posts: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhatshocked View Post
That's a great thread, @DaveKS.

I'd say OP could ask Diana questions directly... but a couple members were straight-up asses to her and she's unfortunately stepped away from the forum.
What happened now?
nothreat33 is offline  
post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 06:09 PM
fpn
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger15 View Post
I think there is a confusion on the definition of active media. The OP referred to Walstad method which is based on nutrient rich soil aka active media in my definition. Your definition of active media is buffering media that will lower pH to benefit soft water fish and shrimp, not the same thing the OP is referring to.

Your explanation on root versus water feeding makes sense. Aquatic plants have the flexibility of nutrient uptake from both roots and water column and not just one or the other. All aquatic plants can be grown hydroponically, meaning that water column dosing alone is sufficient for vigorous growth regardless of substrate. Obviously, if you use DSM with no free water, you need nutrient rich substrate to succeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhatshocked View Post
Flourite isn't an active substrate.

There's no benefit of using an active substrate on top of soil. If you're going to use an active substrate, just use an active substrate. It's generally too light and non-compacting to be of much benefit to prevent anything in the soil from flooding the water column. People use active substrates because they provide everything one needs in a substrate.

If you want to use soil, use soil with a topper like fine gravel or sand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by philyoosays View Post
Any Walstad experts here?

What are your thoughts on using active substrate as opposed to the usual gravel and soil substrate? Specifically Fluval Stratum or Seachem Flourite.

What are your thoughts on active substrate on top of soil (for the co2 production)?
So there are many people who use a layering of substrates and incorporate an organic potting soil / dirt layer into it.

For example I have capped my dirtied tank with ADA Amazonia: http://imgur.com/a/NY6raYz

Not a walstad tank because I inject CO2 - but you could run this as a low tech walstad tank as well.
fpn is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome