Questions regarding extended water change interval - The Planted Tank Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old 05-23-2019, 01:10 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2018
Location: California
Posts: 111
Questions regarding extended water change interval

I'm not aiming for a no-water-change tank, but just want to reduce the frequency if it will make everything more stable for my shrimps. Questions are:
1) I read about creating anoxic conditions to convert nitrate to N2, but why not just use floating plants plus removing them to control the nitrate level?
2) How to deal with or test for the general case of "pollution", whether it be from poop, uneaten food that fell into the substrate, little bit of plasticizer leeched out, "bad" bacteria, some mineral accumulating, etc. There are so many ways to add bad things to the water, yet it seems that the no-water-change philosophy depends on plants and bacteria to remove them all. Really?
3) What is the shrimp feeding philosophy here? The standard is to feed sparingly and remove uneaten food promptly, but now am I no longer supposed to fear "pollution" from leftover food?
4) Do I still add fertilizer (ThriveS) for the plants, or not, since I can control the nitrate level.



For background, I have a low-tech shrimp tank which has UNS controsoil, a few plants and mosses, and I typically do 15% weekly or once-every-two-weeks water change with RO water + GH remineralizer. Usually things are ok and nobody dies, but sometimes the shrimp become less active than usual. Since I am new at this, and the tank is slowly changing with time, there are little changes along the way, such as installing a new light, trying a new food, oops I added too many Indian Almond leaves and turned the water brown, etc. And so my usual fix is to the change the water more often, since I figure that the new water I put in is about as clean as possible.
beanbag is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old 05-23-2019, 02:11 PM
fpn
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
I'm not aiming for a no-water-change tank, but just want to reduce the frequency if it will make everything more stable for my shrimps. Questions are:
1) I read about creating anoxic conditions to convert nitrate to N2, but why not just use floating plants plus removing them to control the nitrate level?
2) How to deal with or test for the general case of "pollution", whether it be from poop, uneaten food that fell into the substrate, little bit of plasticizer leeched out, "bad" bacteria, some mineral accumulating, etc. There are so many ways to add bad things to the water, yet it seems that the no-water-change philosophy depends on plants and bacteria to remove them all. Really?
3) What is the shrimp feeding philosophy here? The standard is to feed sparingly and remove uneaten food promptly, but now am I no longer supposed to fear "pollution" from leftover food?
4) Do I still add fertilizer (ThriveS) for the plants, or not, since I can control the nitrate level.



For background, I have a low-tech shrimp tank which has UNS controsoil, a few plants and mosses, and I typically do 15% weekly or once-every-two-weeks water change with RO water + GH remineralizer. Usually things are ok and nobody dies, but sometimes the shrimp become less active than usual. Since I am new at this, and the tank is slowly changing with time, there are little changes along the way, such as installing a new light, trying a new food, oops I added too many Indian Almond leaves and turned the water brown, etc. And so my usual fix is to the change the water more often, since I figure that the new water I put in is about as clean as possible.
No KH when you remineralize R/O water?

https://www.discobee.com/blogs/news/...ter-parameters

0 dKH can result in pH swings, I would target at least 1 dKH. You can increase the resolution of your GH/KH test kit by using a 10ml test tube. 1 drop is 0.5 degrees then.

In addition you can use a cheap EC/TDS pen to measure total dissolved solids. You would use it as a relative measurement to indicate when you need to do a water change. https://sites.google.com/site/aquati...home/tds-meter
fpn is offline  
post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2018
Location: California
Posts: 111
you're not supposed to have any KH when using a buffering substrate
beanbag is offline  
 
post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 03:57 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
livebearerlove's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 544
1) I read about creating anoxic conditions to convert nitrate to N2, but why not just use floating plants plus removing them to control the nitrate level?
More plants will reduce the nitrate... but at the same time so will water changes


2) How to deal with or test for the general case of "pollution", whether it be from poop, uneaten food that fell into the substrate, little bit of plasticizer leeched out, "bad" bacteria, some mineral accumulating, etc. There are so many ways to add bad things to the water, yet it seems that the no-water-change philosophy depends on plants and bacteria to remove them all. Really?
You mean test for ammonia? API. Ammonia - nitrites- nitrates. I cahnge my water in 2 of my tanks every 2 weeks... I have had tanks that I did a water cahnge every 30 days or so. But there was a simple balance that took months to develop.


3) What is the shrimp feeding philosophy here? The standard is to feed sparingly and remove uneaten food promptly, but now am I no longer supposed to fear "pollution" from leftover food?
Im not exactly sure what you are trying to get across here?... Yes, if you are feeding then remove after they are finished or it can impact your water column causing more ammonia then your 'good' bacteria can handle.



4) Do I still add fertilizer (ThriveS) for the plants, or not, since I can control the nitrate level.
You should always fertilize with something complete- as Nitrate is not 'all' they need'. Plants need macros and micros- excess of any can cause issues.


For background, I have a low-tech shrimp tank which has UNS controsoil, a few plants and mosses, and I typically do 15% weekly or once-every-two-weeks water change with RO water + GH remineralizer. Usually things are ok and nobody dies, but sometimes the shrimp become less active than usual. Since I am new at this, and the tank is slowly changing with time, there are little changes along the way, such as installing a new light, trying a new food, oops I added too many Indian Almond leaves and turned the water brown, etc. And so my usual fix is to the change the water more often, since I figure that the new water I put in is about as clean as possible.
The water you put in is basically bare, so ferts are important, but also with a KH of 0 you will have pH swings dependent on lighting and other variables... IMO

Giving back creates a virtuous cycle that makes everyone more successful (as long as they cycle!)
livebearerlove is online now  
post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 05:57 PM
fpn
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 25
Hmm, when I talk to the folks at aqua forest aquarium they recommend to bring KH to 4dKH (Tap water bottoms out at 0 dKH seasonally here), and that would assume ADA Amazonia or a similar buffered ADA substrate.

I was kind of surprised by that, but I can't find a specific literature that states the recommended KH for use with buffered substrates. There is a recommendation not to use water with high KH, but that would be dKH 8+.

Anyway I would start with the requirements for your shrimp (see the discobee link), and take it from there. Some shrimp like RCS need slightly harder water and some others very soft water.

My RCS are much happier (and having lots of babies) in my tank that has 4dKH (because of a handful aragonite between the potting soil and ADA Amazonia cap - would not recommend argonite though - you don't have control after the fact - better to treat new water directly).
fpn is offline  
post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 03:38 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
AbbeysDad's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Central New York, USA
Posts: 1,223
1) I read about creating anoxic conditions to convert nitrate to N2, but why not just use floating plants plus removing them to control the nitrate level?

If your bio-load is low, you might manage nitrates/pollution with fast growing plants that use the ammonia as their N2 source, which indirectly reduces nitrates. However, this requires a delicate balance that most hobbyists may find a challenge as we tend to have more stock than fast growing plants can compensate for.


2) How to deal with or test for the general case of "pollution", whether it be from poop, uneaten food that fell into the substrate, little bit of plasticizer leeched out, "bad" bacteria, some mineral accumulating, etc. There are so many ways to add bad things to the water, yet it seems that the no-water-change philosophy depends on plants and bacteria to remove them all. Really?

You might use nitrates AND a TDS meter to monitor water quality.


3) What is the shrimp feeding philosophy here? The standard is to feed sparingly and remove uneaten food promptly, but now am I no longer supposed to fear "pollution" from leftover food?

I don't have shrimp, but as with all creatures you feed the amount/frequency of quality food necessary to keep them well fed, but not overfed.


4) Do I still add fertilizer (ThriveS) for the plants, or not, since I can control the nitrate level.

Generally speaking, modest fertilization is a good thing. But there are exceptions. I have water sprite in all my tanks. In my 60g display tank, if I don't fertilize, the plants seem to suffer. In my 37g grow out tank, the water sprite grows like a weed with no fertilization. I suspect that with the amount of young stock (swordtails) and the amount of food I feed, the water is full of nutrients w/o adding ferts.

Tank On, Mike-
60g Marineland Community, Finnex Planted+ 24/7, Silica (pool filter) sand.
10g, 29g, & 37g fry grow out tanks, 110g stock tank.


What came first, the chicken or the egg. It was the egg, but not the egg of a chicken.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
AbbeysDad is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Water Changing Woes psych Fertilizers and Water Parameters 19 05-22-2015 04:09 PM
CRS vs. RCS beginnertoshrimp Shrimp & Other Invertebrates 56 09-02-2012 01:03 AM
My Automatic Water Changer - Setup SuRje1976 Equipment 85 02-09-2010 11:07 PM
Automatic water change system design DIY Zapins DIY 16 10-02-2009 03:08 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome