865 vs 965 T5 Bulbs - 'Best' T5 White Tubes? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-21-2020, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
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865 vs 965 T5 Bulbs - 'Best' T5 White Tubes?

Currently have the Osram 865 white ones and as they have CRI 80, I wonder if the Osram 965 or Philips de Luxe Pro 965 would be a lot better? 965 are more expensive but if it's worth it I would do it.

Especially since I make videos of my tank a higher CRI can be useful. For example for better color on skintone if I'm in the frame.

Did anyone test this ever? 865 vs 965 bulbs.

I was thinking about buying the Osram 965 ones did anyone ever compare to Philips 965?

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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-22-2020, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel95 View Post
Currently have the Osram 865 white ones and as they have CRI 80, I wonder if the Osram 965 or Philips de Luxe Pro 965 would be a lot better? 965 are more expensive but if it's worth it I would do it.

Especially since I make videos of my tank a higher CRI can be useful. For example for better color on skintone if I'm in the frame.

Did anyone test this ever? 865 vs 965 bulbs.

I was thinking about buying the Osram 965 ones did anyone ever compare to Philips 965?
If they aren't identical doubt if there is any noticeable difference..
all the numbers describe the bulb.
90-ish cri 6500K.


I'd not really shoot for 6500k if you are worried about skin tone. you can fix in post process though.


https://www.microgamma.com/luznormal...p?CODI=LW18D65
Sort of working backwards but images tell a story:
https://spectrum-brand.com/blogs/new...e-up-the-facts

Personally, I'd try a 950..
A caveat:

Quote:
The important thing to take away here is that you should be cognizant of the fact that some people might look better in warmer light and some might look better in cooler light and adjust accordingly.

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Last edited by jeffkrol; 11-22-2020 at 02:41 AM. Reason: edit
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-22-2020, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
If they aren't identical doubt if there is any noticeable difference..
all the numbers describe the bulb.
90-ish cri 6500K.


I'd not really shoot for 6500k if you are worried about skin tone. you can fix in post process though.


https://www.microgamma.com/luznormal...p?CODI=LW18D65
Sort of working backwards but images tell a story:
https://spectrum-brand.com/blogs/new...e-up-the-facts

Personally, I'd try a 950..
A caveat:
Normally in a scape I wouldn't only use the white bulbs as they can a bit of a washed out effect. Rather a mix with some colored bulbs that will push reds (and blue) a bit more. However when making the hardscape, I found that the purplish tint a bit distracting. Indeed with some white balance settings and post it's all fixable.



Back to the topic... before I bought a studio light (not for above tank but for other filming) I used some cheap Chinese bulbs like this the tint was awful on skintones and hard to fix in post. I assumed it was the lower CRI of 80 or the spectrum had a big spike in greens. Since I jumped to the godox sl-60w with 90cri it became much better. This made me think to swap my T5 for 90 cri bulbs. Instead of the cri 80 osram 865 that I have now. What are your thoughts? I think it differs and that some 80 cri lights could be useable but you don't really know before you have them. Is it safe to assume that cri 90 is always in the ball park of 'good'?

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-22-2020, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel95 View Post
Back to the topic... before I bought a studio light (not for above tank but for other filming) I used some cheap Chinese bulbs like this the tint was awful on skintones and hard to fix in postI assumed it was the lower CRI of 80 or the spectrum had a big spike in greens. Since I jumped to the godox sl-60w with 90cri it became much better. This made me think to swap my T5 for 90 cri bulbs. Inst. ead of the cri 80 osram 865 that I have now. What are your thoughts? I think it differs and that some 80 cri lights could be useable but you don't really know before you have them. Is it safe to assume that cri 90 is always in the ball park of 'good'?
Since CRI is the average of 8 color patches yes each 90 can differ in color tone. You need to look at the spectrum distribution.
Secondly all fluorescent spike in green since that is a primary Mercury emission line.. This is only covered by the use of phosphors.

Same goes for Kelvin or more correctly w/ punctated sources of light CCT.

6500k CCT measured bulbs can all differ in tone (and camera effect) between brands and greatly so.

The 950 bulb I listed (ease of availability ??) has a listed CRI of 98 and a K temp of 5500K

LED's use a blue pump and yellow to yellow green phosphors to create white light.
There is no strong "peak" in green but the tint in low CRI led is pretty obvious.
Good thing is the green cast is self inflicted not endemic as in mercury based bulbs therefor relatively easy to eliminate
though a manufacturers choice.
Some low CRI leds use a more yellow than green phosphor.
Quote:
Second, we describe four types of typical commercial phosphors for wLEDs, including YAG:Ce phosphors, (oxy)nitride phosphors, silicates phosphors, and Mn4+-activated fluoride phosphors.
Are all 90+ CRI bulbs "good"? ..depends on your use/requirements as shown above.

Quote:
I assumed it was the lower CRI of 80 or the spectrum had a big spike in greens.
Well sort of, but there are low CRI Leds w/ less green. All depends on the exact phosphor or phosphor mix.
And technically it is more of a hump than spike. though some phosphors are spikey ie some red emitting phosphors.

I know you are reaching out to people that have used the exact combos of lights in the exact same way you are researching but that will be a long shot.
Best to at least let the science guide you and that starts out with spectrum charts.


So you are apparently stuck with me ATM.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-22-2020, 07:16 PM Thread Starter
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The requirements is trying to improve the looks if possible of the osram 865 t5 54w bulbs for the hardscape stage (and for a layout with green plants mainly). With improved looks I basically refer back to the skintones as with those cheap Chinese bulbs I became a hulk or so lol.. You said 6500k isn't ideal for skintones but I am sort of looking for a sweet spot between skin tones and what I am used to for my scapes (a more blueish look with highly saturated greens, I had ADA RGB Solar before). For the hardscape building stage. When there is water in their skintones become less relevant. What I really dislike is when the green plants / tank has a yellow cast. My current osram 865 seem doable for the job, but maybe I can improve it by swapping to this bulb for example: Philips MASTER TL5 HO 90 De Luxe 54W/965 1SL/20 and spectrum chart of that bulb philips 965 by Nigel Aquascaping, on Flickr

What I also have at home are the following bulbs:
- 2x dennerle color plus
- Dennerle special plant
- Ati purple plus
I would use this combo for a colorful layout probably with lots of red plants.

But my next layout will have mostly green plants so I don't think that combo would make much sense? For my taste at least.. the greens don't show up nicely according to my taste.

I think for a greenish layout I could maybe stick to the white bulbs (Philips 965?) and can always play around with the bulbs I have, to see if that would improve anything for my taste.

Maybe the Osram 865 or Philips would turn out bit to yellow for my taste. I am not sure haven't seen it yet. A Osram 880 t5 54w in the mix could balance that a bit? Or the Ati purple plus however I think the tint will be strong with the Ati purple plus one.

Some charts here of the bulbs I already own

Ati purple plus
atipurpleplus by Nigel Aquascaping, on Flickr

Dennerle color plus
dennerle color plus by Nigel Aquascaping, on Flickr


Dennerle special plant
dennerle special plant by Nigel Aquascaping, on Flickr

What bulb combo would you use for lets say a client, that wants a more cold (higher kelvin) look (Think ada rgb solar). Well at least no yellow cast to it... where the greens look nice green? Some bucephalandra sp, green neon tetra and also different shades of green plants. All of this displayed at their 'best' to my taste with a t5 setup.

So far I think for the hardscape stage and also video work just some 6500k bulbs would be okay. For a colorful red layout I would use the colored bulbs mix above. But for a greenish layout with different shades (dark and lighter green) and blue hues like the fish and some bucephalandra. Would you go with just white bulbs and if so 865 osram or 965 Philips? Or would you throw anything in the mix with those whites to make the blueish shades (fish, buce) pop more? I would use a mix of 4 bulbs in my setup.

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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-22-2020, 08:42 PM
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Reading the above makes me thankful for my color tune-able leds...

You pose a bunch of interesting questions. Particularly where AFAICT most tubes don't "favor" green to a certain extent.
The montone mercury spike in the green a bit of green phosphor is about it..

That said the blue phosphors of the tubes (most all "whitish" tubes use a combo pack of RGB phosphors ) are broad enough
to dive into the blue/green green/blue range unlike most LED's which are notoriously short in blue/green.


So for green specific and no "yellow" def run the 6500k 90 plus cri. Higher doping in the green range w/ a larger spread.

Funny now that I think about it led need support in cyan/red area whereas tubes need support in the green/red range to generate high CRI white..err..white from "ordinary" bulbs..

Does get complicated. Look at the difference between the 6500k lumilux and 6500k biolux in this chart both 90+ cri both 6500k but totally different goals.
biolux is much richer in blue/green to yellow red tones lumilux crisper blue white.
:

I'd probably recommend combining the Lumilux and Biolux..

As you may now gather tubes really aren't my specialty..

Oh and mixing tubes the CRI gets less important since one type can support the failings of another..

So starting w/ a cheap bulb like the GE starcoat and adding "color" is another option.

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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-22-2020, 09:14 PM
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Geisseman tropic 6500k by itself is another possibility.

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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-22-2020, 11:51 PM Thread Starter
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Haha yeah those leds have their advantage too. What I like about t5 is that the fixture covers whole width of my tank and also a good portion front to back. Something that is harder with most led fixtures or at least need 2 like 2x twinstar 120 sp. But twinstar also not fine tuneable.

Hmm that Biolux seems hard to come by over here. Couldn't find anything so far. The LUMILUX is available and looks to my eyes a bit similar to the Philips 965 I mentioned earlier?

Makes me think if I pick the osram 965 LUMILUX or the Philips 965. If I could balance it a bit with a dennerle color plus bulb to bring in some reds? Or would that look weird maybe..

Main question still is will I see a good difference with those 965 bulbs compared to osram 865 if I put on a dennerle color plus or so. Those osram 865 are very cheap. Guess I just need to try the 965 and see if it's worth it future wise If I replace them.

Do you prefer the Giesseman tropic above the Philips 965 and Osram 965 LUMILUX? Those Giesseman are a lot more expensive than the non aquarium labeled ones. But maybe they last longer with real world use not sure..

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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-23-2020, 01:03 AM
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Phillips "master" 965


Lumilux 965


Geisseman Tropic


There is very little difference between the 3...

biolux is def "different" though it may have a bit too much yellow green for your liking..


Just for sharing..
200 pages of stuff..
file:///C:/Users/Jeff2/AppData/Local/Temp/single-and-double-capped-fluorescent-lamps-english-part-1.pdf
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Last edited by jeffkrol; 11-23-2020 at 01:19 AM. Reason: edit
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