Dim a e27 lightbulb with TC420? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-27-2020, 05:50 PM Thread Starter
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Dim a e27 lightbulb with TC420?

Hey was wondering if anyone has found a way to dim e27 bulbs or 110 outlets with the TC420?

I want to swap my WW Leds for Halogens, as I need the heat they provide, I know there is IRA LEDs but do they actually provide heat?

I may go with the Puck Halogens, which should work decently enough I think and I could control with the dimming duntion of the TC420. Also had a question about that, so I know the TC says 4amps is safe, but what about 5 amps? Is that at all safe or would there be serious issues?

I will have to do more digging, but assuming they use the 20ws specified at 12vs specified (assuming they get all 12? I seen someone saying you need a 14v supply to actually get 10v for 0-10v dimming? due to the voltage drop through the TC?) that would be 4.8ish, if they suffer drop then I will run them at 10vs, so that may complicate things more.
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-27-2020, 06:05 PM
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None of that sounds promising..
BUT in an off the cuff thinking.. the possibility of using 12V DC halogens (up to 24V) is somewhat a possibility.
40W may be the limit..

The spec sheet for the MOSFET in the TC is available on line. The 4A limits is for "dc" .. i.e no dimming-ish..
You may be able to exceed that w/ adding small heat sinks to the MOSFETS..NO guarantee.
There are "electronic-y things" that I'm no accounting for like surge currents ect.


There is a tc-423 that runs on AC..

Quote:
Max load current:1A/CH
@ 220V

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32937090987.html
https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...767071669.html

There really shouldn't be any (or much) voltage drop on the MOSFET switches AFAICT though in my limited understanding on switching efficiency may drop a during dimming.
Thing is it's 10V PWM NOT 10 V analog..if using the MOSFET pass through circuitry and a 10V supply.

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-27-2020, 07:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
None of that sounds promising..
BUT in an off the cuff thinking.. the possibility of using 12V DC halogens (up to 24V) is somewhat a possibility.
40W may be the limit..

The spec sheet for the MOSFET in the TC is available on line. The 4A limits is for "dc" .. i.e no dimming-ish..
You may be able to exceed that w/ adding small heat sinks to the MOSFETS..NO guarantee.
There are "electronic-y things" that I'm no accounting for like surge currents ect.


There is a tc-423 that runs on AC..

@ 220V

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32937090987.html
https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...767071669.html

There really shouldn't be any (or much) voltage drop on the MOSFET switches AFAICT though in my limited understanding on switching efficiency may drop a during dimming.
Thing is it's 10V PWM NOT 10 V analog..if using the MOSFET pass through circuitry and a 10V supply.
Gotcha.

So split up the Pucks on separate channels is looking like my only real recourse. I really didn't want to have to tie up 2/3 channels for the pucks, but if I must, I must right .

As to the 0-10v, I was thinking of using this? https://us.amazon.com/KNACRO-voltage...A631JFFSKT6318

There was another thread, that mentioned its use for Flos, here. https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...-0-10v-dc.html

He said he had to use a 14v supply to get it to work though.


I forgot it was PWM on the 12v, so do you think that will dim the halogens? Or am I SOL on that?

So right now my Cobs, are on a 40v supply, with LDDs being hooked to the TC420 to control them. Would LDDs be able to handle the Pucks? If not used at full power, and ran in series on a 1500 LDD? I have the extra LDDs, would like a 5 LDD board in that case, but thats easy enough to swap. So run the CoBs and the Halogens off the same Power Supply, I have the headroom. Would that work?

Tc423 looks nice, but its an entirely separate controller, which is something I am trying to steer away from. I would prefer to be able to control the E27 with a 0-10v whether PWM or Analog, I know I seen something like that, but couldn't find it in stock anywhere.

Jeff what about this?

Would this work and how would I wire it to a TC420?

well apparently cant link to no ebay links allowed.. Strange lol. Anyway here is the name, AC Light Dimmer Module 1 Channel 3.3V 5V Logic Pwm 220V 110V Arduino AC 50 60hz

And why are ebay links removed but not Amazon??? thats, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJQf6bNodhE

Last edited by Darkblade48; 01-29-2020 at 09:29 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-27-2020, 09:02 PM
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Running LDDs and the "mod" wire off the MOSFET gate doesn't "tie up" a channel really..
Seperate circuits so to speak..

I've run both 12V strips and an LDD off the same channel.. Now just a brief test as to the possibility.
Catch of course is it uses the same programming..
LDD driven light bar and 12V strips off the same channel


The voltage loss on the "converter" from PWM to analog I suppose is sort of expected but has nothing to do w/ the 420's MOSFETS..

Oh and it's probably simple to use an R/C circuit to convert your 12v (or whatever) PWM output to a rough analog voltage..
https://electronics.stackexchange.co...-an-input-sine
https://provideyourown.com/2011/anal...wm-to-voltage/

Assumption is you are using a 10V ish in to the 420 and controlling a separate 0-10v driver

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Last edited by jeffkrol; 01-27-2020 at 09:19 PM. Reason: edit
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-27-2020, 09:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
Running LDDs and the "mod" wire off the MOSFET gate doesn't "tie up" a channel really..
Seperate circuits so to speak..

I've run both 12V strips and an LDD off the same channel.. Now just a brief test as to the possibility.
Catch of course is it uses the same programming..
LDD driven light bar and 12V strips off the same channel
https://youtu.be/1qm_5w7DDuA


The voltage loss on the "converter" from PWM to analog I suppose is sort of expected but has nothing to do w/ the 420's MOSFETS..
I am aware of that, however the channels with the 12v halogens programming would not be utilized by anything else. So it would tie up those channels.

So I need to run the 12v Halogens off LDDs themselves, or Run them directly and tie up more channels. Im not sure if the halogens work in a way that they could even be ran in series, so that idea is kind of out too.
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-27-2020, 09:31 PM
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LDD's vary voltage to match a part. current set point.. Doesn't seem possible..

so none of the puck channels programming matches what you'd want for the halogen channel?

I know you don't want 2 controllers but it''s seems to certainly be the simplest solution..

You generally can run multiple LDD's off one 5V tap but no guarantee about other digital/analog devices..
Depends on their current draw.. LDD's draw very little on the PWM wire..

Maybe I'm not picturing your needs correctly..
Seems you only need one channel and that's available from the disconnection (which you don't technically even have to do via 5v vs MOSFET)
of your ww LED channel..

As long as you keep your one channel under 24V and 4A..
like 4 20W 24V halogens in parallel.

Running a DC halogen is no different than running an LED strip....AFAICT.

you would need 2 power supplies say 24V 5A and your 40-ish V for the LDDS.
24V goes to the TC-420.. Other to the LED output. Just tie the grounds together.. only..


"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."

Last edited by jeffkrol; 01-27-2020 at 09:45 PM. Reason: edit
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-27-2020, 09:37 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
LDD's vary voltage to match a part. current set point.. Doesn't seem possible..

so none of the puck channels programming matches what you'd want for the halogen channel?

I know you don't want 2 controllers but it''s seems to certainly be the simplest solution..

You generally can run multiple LDD's off one 5V tap but no guarantee about other digital/analog devices..
Depends on their current draw.. LDD's draw very little on the PWM wire..

Maybe I'm not picturing your needs correctly..
Seems you only need one channel and that's available from the disconnection (which you don't technically even have to do via 5v vs MOSFET)
of your ww LED channel..

As long as you keep your one channel under 24V and 4A..
like 4 20W 24V halogens in parallel.
Ahh but there in lies the issue, in your final statement, there is no 24v halogen puck lights. They only come in 12v and 120v (and likely 240v, but not here).

So there we are limited to 2 per channel, and I need 3. Puck lights come in 24vs only when they are LED pucks, Halogen and Xenon bulbs do not exist in 24v, that I can find.

Scratch that, the Bulbs do, however all of the non LED fixtures state 12v. These however do claim to be 24v halogens. https://www.amazon.com/Anyray%C2%AE-.../dp/B009XNCIO6
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-27-2020, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyberlocc View Post
Ahh but there in lies the issue, in your final statement, there is no 24v halogen puck lights. They only come in 12v and 120v (and likely 240v, but not here).

So there we are limited to 2 per channel, and I need 3. Puck lights come in 24vs only when they are LED pucks, Halogen and Xenon bulbs do not exist in 24v, that I can find.

Scratch that, the Bulbs do, however all of the non LED fixtures state 12v. These however do claim to be 24v halogens. https://www.amazon.com/Anyray%C2%AE-.../dp/B009XNCIO6

Then use 12V.. I just picked one..
https://www.12vmonster.com/products/...-gu5-3-fitting
https://www.12vmonster.com/products/...3d9e13b3&_ss=r

doesn't really matter.. just can't exceed 4A total..

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-27-2020, 11:19 PM Thread Starter
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Then use 12V.. I just picked one..
https://www.12vmonster.com/products/...-gu5-3-fitting
https://www.12vmonster.com/products/...3d9e13b3&_ss=r

doesn't really matter.. just can't exceed 4A total..
Right but 12v 4 amps is alot diffrent from 24v 4 amp lol.

I did find some 24s in those MR16s like the ones you just linked. I will go with those, they come in higher wattages as well. So I can do 1 35w, and 2 20s or whatever.

Is there even really a 4amp channel limit? Where are we getting this? the datasheet says max output 20amps. thats it, it says nothing about per channel anywhere.

Could I trick it and use 24 to 12v step down after the TC to get less amperage to the TC?

Last edited by Darkblade48; 01-29-2020 at 09:30 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-27-2020, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyberlocc View Post
Is there even really a 4amp channel limit? Where are we getting this? the datasheet says max output 20amps. thats it, it says nothing about per channel anywhere.

Could I trick it and use 24 to 12v step down after the TC to get less amperage to the TC?

Off the MOSFET data sheet..
https://alhkma.com/content/Transisto...516_AOD516.pdf
https://lcsc.com/product-detail/MOSF...16_C68256.html

DC area..

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."

Last edited by jeffkrol; 01-28-2020 at 12:56 AM. Reason: edit
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-30-2020, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
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Well that datasheet states a much higher Max than 4amps. I dont really understand what the graphic means however.

Do you think adding Heatsinks to the Mosfets would allow me to go a tad over? Is there even room for a heatsink under there? Say 4.35amps? That way I can run 3 of the 35w 24v models that have the 60 degree beam angle?

I like the MR16s you linked, alot. However the 34 degree beam angle is a turn off, and the only one I can find with a 60 degree is 35ws (which is probably better anyway) but we are back at square 1 lol.

So lets say we go with that, would 4.3 amps be swing able with a small heat sink?

OR,

Actually better could I run the halogens through an LDD Driver? Say I put each Halogen on its own LDD with a 1500 LDD. Would I need to reduce my incoming voltage, from the Powersupply? (its 42vs) or would the LDD take care of that and work with the Halogens?

With this change I will have extra LDD board, and LDDs. So if I can just use them for the halogens that would work fine for me, actually even better, as the boards are the Rapid ones with the 12v, so I could run that off to power the TC420 since the CW COBs are going back on pins.
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-01-2020, 12:51 AM
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Hmmm never really thought about using LDD's to dim incandescent bulbs..
Can't find anything against it really..except for shorter bulb life..
https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/t...n-bulb.102946/
https://www.electronics-lab.com/proj...n-lamp-dimmer/

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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-07-2020, 08:22 PM Thread Starter
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Hmmm never really thought about using LDD's to dim incandescent bulbs..
Can't find anything against it really..except for shorter bulb life..
https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/t...n-bulb.102946/
https://www.electronics-lab.com/proj...n-lamp-dimmer/
Ya I thought as much, I really need to find a way to dim the standard 110v e27 bulbs with the TC420.

Would either of these work, off the 5v pwm of a TC420?



This one just seems to have GND, PWM and VCC,

https://www.amazon.com/Light-Dimmer-.../dp/B06Y1DT1WP



This version has a Zero Cross, and so I am not sure if it would work. Or how to wire either one, everything just talks about Arduino.

https://www.amazon.com/RobotDyn-cont...NRQMMEWAAB76BA
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-07-2020, 09:01 PM
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Ya I thought as much, I really need to find a way to dim the standard 110v e27 bulbs with the TC420.

Would either of these work, off the 5v pwm of a TC420?



This one just seems to have GND, PWM and VCC,

https://www.amazon.com/Light-Dimmer-.../dp/B06Y1DT1WP



This version has a Zero Cross, and so I am not sure if it would work. Or how to wire either one, everything just talks about Arduino.

https://www.amazon.com/RobotDyn-cont...NRQMMEWAAB76BA

Doubt if they are functionally different but out of my wheelhouse..
Anyways "theory" and technically not much different than pure PWM AFAICT..

Smoother but same on/off periods.
https://www.sunrom.com/p/dimmer-modu...trol-256-steps


They list no "halogen" but assume thay meant things like MH's and ballast driven lights.

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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-07-2020, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
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Doubt if they are functionally different but out of my wheelhouse..
Anyways "theory" and technically not much different than pure PWM AFAICT..

Smoother but same on/off periods.
https://www.sunrom.com/p/dimmer-modu...trol-256-steps


They list no "halogen" but assume thay meant things like MH's and ballast driven lights.
That one complicates things though lol.

I just seen this one, I asked the company, but I know you are well versed in how the TC operates, so maybe you could make heads or tails from these guys.

https://www.powerswitchtail.com/powerssr-tail

I like that close in the AC line, and make wiring simple lol. Im just not sure how they could or would work in tandem with a TC420.
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