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T5 vs LED

55K views 188 replies 38 participants last post by  aquapadawan 
#1 · (Edited)
Currently I run LED lights on my tanks, AI prime freshwater on 1 and an SBreef on the other. They work fine but it seems like all the really great tanks on here are using T5HO

I am planning on buying a 72 gallon tank from Waterbox and thought I might switch to T5HO. That is until I started looking for bulbs. I'll be damned if I can find anywhere that has a good selection in stock
Was thinking a purple, a truelumen flora, power veg 660 and one more but I couldn't find a single source to get all

Add on to that I don't REALLY know what I'm looking for and I'm stuck

Where do y'all get bulbs? Any recommendations? I've also considered trying harrisseeds.com/products/41698-4-active-grow-4-tube-red-bloom-spectrum-t5-ho-led-fixture with 2 widespectrum but then I'm right back at LEDs and that kind of defeats the purpose...
 
#3 · (Edited)
#4 ·
No question there are a few LED lights out there that can produce amazing tanks but they seem to be the exception. There are few if no examples from members here on this forum
Jeff what is your opinion of the harris fixtures/leds linked above? How would spectrum compare to standard T5HO?
 
#6 ·
No question there are a few LED lights out there that can produce amazing tanks but they seem to be the exception. There are few if no examples from members here on this forum
Jeff what is your opinion of the harris fixtures/leds linked above? How would spectrum compare to standard T5HO?
"Standard" t5ho (ie 6500k based) are about equivalent to the current breed of RGB led's..
now the catch is certain shortcomings of leds part in a lack of a broad based blue range.




Typical "high" CRI 6500k lamp
https://www.carnivorousplants.org/grow/SoilsWaterLight/FluorescentLighting


As to what might be considered "common" among t5 users (w white/cool white/blue/red tube mixes) so it gets more
err complicated..


The "white" LED one is low K, the other is typical "full spectrum" diodes w/ royal blue pump and a broad spectrum red phosphor.




That light will grow things just fine. Combined low k R/B led will look OK but at a 2:1 ratio of white/r/b
1:1 is OK too..
Most LED people using those "full spectrum" reds suggest pairing w/ higher K whites like 10,000K to look more..err natural
but that's a natural look not a "punchy" look..



Personally I don't buy into "ballast run" LEd's and non-dimmable.
and you don't seem to get a mix/match choice so only this one would be useable on a visual perspective:

https://www.harrisseeds.com/collect...e-grow-4-tube-wide-spectrum-t5-ho-led-fixture


to be honest.. I'd go w/ 2-3 custom light bars from Orphek..
to be real honest, I'd just build my own..
https://orphek.com/or-bar-led-light/
Only need 2 to match wattage..3 is a bonus..
See fun thing about LEd's is the fact that they are lensed.. No hood really needed..
Sadly, those 48" bars run $180 plus I believe you need to add $10 to get them customized..
Truthfully, too expensive for non-dimmable bars.
 
#5 ·
I am one of the T5HO guys, don't think I'll ever switch out to an LED unit. Couple of reasons, first I do not like the "shimmer" that LED's create. Second, as you mentioned T5's have been proven by many including myself to grow plants well. Now all these nice tanks you talk about are not due to just the T5 lighting, trust me when I say a lot of work goes into these tanks you speak of. So don't think switching to T5 is going to instantly create a show tank!

As for where to get bulbs. Of course online, and some of the American guys can help you source them. I'm in Canada and buy all my bulbs including the Power Veg bulbs from my local hydroponics shop.

This is the combination I am running and have run for a while now. Works for me.....
Front to Back
Power Veg UVFS
Power Veg 420
Power Veg 633
2700K




Has nothing to do w/ LED vs t5 just spectrum vs spectrum..
Doubt if anyone would have an issue w/ this tank.. ;)
Just remember the fixture in the above photo is a BML LED and are no longer available. It was and probably still is the gold standard when it comes to LED's for planted tanks. If you can find a used one be prepared to pay the same price as when it was new.
 
#7 · (Edited)
I am one of the T5HO guys, don't think I'll ever switch out to an LED unit. Couple of reasons, first I do not like the "shimmer" that LED's create. Second, as you mentioned T5's have been proven by many including myself to grow plants well. Now all these nice tanks you talk about are not due to just the T5 lighting, trust me when I say a lot of work goes into these tanks you speak of. So don't think switching to T5 is going to instantly create a show tank!

As for where to get bulbs. Of course online, and some of the American guys can help you source them. I'm in Canada and buy all my bulbs including the Power Veg bulbs from my local hydroponics shop.

This is the combination I am running and have run for a while now. Works for me.....
Front to Back
Power Veg UVFS
Power Veg 420
Power Veg 633
2700K






Just remember the fixture in the above photo is a BML LED and are no longer available. It was and probably still is the gold standard when it comes to LED's for planted tanks. If you can find a used one be prepared to pay the same price as when it was new.
Thanks and good call on the hydroponics store, here I've been sitting for hours searching online for bulbs and there's a hydroponic store just down the road from where I work
Looking on their website they have the powerveg 420 and 633. Not sure on the other 2 but I'll be going to see them tomorrow
Thanks

As to the miracle of lighting I understand it's just one component of keeping a beautiful tank, I feel like after the last couple of years working at it I've really dialed in the ferts and CO2 but these damn LEDs just haven't been doing it for me or so I suspect

Jeff thank you for that info. I'm fairly ignorant on lighting and it's nuances so seems it would be a smart decision for me to go with the trusty T5HO option
 
#8 ·
Hey no problem, I have more against how LED fixures are "designed" than about LED vs t5..

Power Veg UVFS
Power Veg 420 basically
Power Veg 633
2700K
It's all in the spectrum..
https://eyehortilux.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/F54T5ho420NMpvHTL-UV.png
https://eyehortilux.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/F54T5ho633NMpvHTL-UV.png
https://eyehortilux.com/grow-lights/powerveg-family/powerveg-fsuv/
ANSI RG-2: CAUTION

Product emits UVA and UVB rays. Possible skin or eye irritation can result from exposures exceeding 30 minutes when working less than 8 inches from the lamp. Use appropriate skin and eye protection.
 
#9 ·
#14 ·
Not to beat a dead horse, but it's sort of fascinating..
https://youtu.be/na63U1aQixo
You're not beating a dead horse. You're repeatedly (thank you!) trying to get people to stop spreading misinformation about light-emitting diodes.

It really is all about spectrum.

Anyone who thinks LEDs are too expensive should check prices and quality from a decade ago - was a nightmare then. My mind is constantly blown on a daily basis now that fixtures are better, cheaper and more attainable.

Some people are just always going to be set in their ways and resistant to change.

For those who dislike the shimmer effect: there are ways to mitigate that.

No question there are a few LED lights out there that can produce amazing tanks but they seem to be the exception. There are few if no examples from members here on this forum
That's... what? Would encourage you to actually put in a bit of effort and read through some of the thousands of tank journals here, on YouTube, other social media channels before making such a wild claim.

I know you don't mean it as a joke but I certainly got a good laugh out of it. Plenty of amazing tanks lit by LEDs that produce equal or better results.
 
#12 ·
Seems they don't (or I missed it) post their spectrum anymore..


But I did find this thanks to the infinite memory of the internet..Need more channels and really, one can do w/ less if you use better diodes..;)
 
#19 ·
I think a lot of the folks who win are also, generally, longtime scapers or scapers with decent experience under their belt. They're using equipment they've had for quite some time. Would imagine most of them haven't yet seen a need to switch - in part because of their own preferences - and wouldn't want to switch until equipment starts failing or there's a major financial advantage.

It really does take a lot of practice to get good, so it makes sense to me that few newcomers win. As new folks gain experience, I bet we'll start to see more winners with LED setups. As tank lights improve on the LED front, that can only mean good things for us all.

Regardless, I'm always impressed with what people produce in their tank journals. Encourage everyone to spend time scrolling through them when they get the chance because it's really enjoyable. Also a fun way to track advances in lighting tech without having to buy it.
 
#20 ·
Yes, everyone with a tank journal is hoping that someone chimes in and says, "that's my goal", or "how did you do that?".

l love this forum.

Cheers

PS: I am being enthusiastic and not sarcastic.
 
#21 ·
I really like LED's and think they have improved greatly in the past little while. They need to go a little farther for large tanks though. Nature scape with all green plants LED would be my top choice I think.

Pros
Love the shimmer
Tuning spectrum
Integrated timers
DIMMING!!
Low heat

Cons
Hot spots on 4ft + tanks due to fixture size
Needing multiple fixtures on 4ft + tanks
Spectrum has only been figured out by a small percentage of companies.
Cost (I'm cheap)
Sorry to say but alot of fixtures are just ugly.
Mounting options are limited, no I don't want a fixture sitting right on top of a large rimless tank with legs.
Spread is horrible.

Love the colour spectrum of ADA, Twinstar, ONF. On small tanks the ONF and Twinstar look really good with legs and look okay so close to the top. On a 4ft tank I don't think they sell a product that fits even with multiples.

ADA is the cats meow for spectrum and looks great with 2 on a 4 ft. No way I could ever justify the price though. Even with all the good they still have weak spread with hot spots solely because their pendants.

AI, EcoTech, and GHL all look great with their mounting systems, still suffer from spread issues and I'm not sold that their spectrum is pleasing to me yet. I feel the freshwater versions are not the focus and just miss the mark. They are quite capable to be hung well above the tank which I like.

I really like the aesthetic's of the Giesemann futura s freshwater. Full width fixture to match the size of the tank, looks more like a traditional T5 fixture. No idea about anything else with it but that's what a 4ft tank LED fixture should look like to me.

Unfortunately, I still would choose a $200 used t5ho (dimmable preferred) that some reef guy is offloading because he's forking out big money to go LED.

With all that said I really am not well versed in LED's and would like any advice from the more experienced. What would you recommend given my pro/cons, don't worry about price because the used T5 is still cheaper.

Tank is 4ft x 2ft, high light, has to be sexy.
 
#22 ·
Tank is 4ft x 2ft, high light, has to be sexy.

Define "sexy"..
Steampunk

modern
Victorian
Tech (bells and whistles )


https://orphek.com/atlantik-v4-planted-freshwater-aquariums-led-light/
Good thing:
2x4 fw should be no problem in intensity and coverage.
Bad thing: Overpriced..


2-3 AI Primes ca look sexy.. hung right..
Lot cheaper (but not cheap) than Orphek.
note AI Primes just released new models.


Thing is both these brands have such a wide latitude of look it's really hard to say that the color isn't to ones liking..
https://imgur.com/gallery/gBa9B

 
#26 ·
Tough crowd.. ;)


UNSTitan..
Titan 1 Premium Aquarium RGB LED Light For Planted Tanks - Ultum Nature Systems

Except for the adj. part..
I number crunched the NEW IA Prime.. It's pretty good w/ red and not sure one can go totally off photos..

RGB only fixtures will always look punchier due to lack of intermediate tones or white "washout"..

You're moving to DIY.. ;)
more aluminum, lose the suspension bar.....
 
#27 ·
Tough crowd.. ;)
Haha, you bet! Don't get me wrong, I think these are all amazing lights but for the price of any new light it better meet all my needs.

That UNS looks sweet, for my purposes it's the same as the ADA. Would it kill them both to make a 4 ft version? Not to mention no integrated timer and dimmer?!? What year is this?

I was really close to making a DIY led years ago, I think it would be a great project. There's lots of quality builds but very few that I would say are commercially polished looking. Instead I picked up a used Sfiligoi T5HO and gave it a coat of paint to match my stand. I do wish it had integrated timers and dimming though.

I agree LED's are the future, if those RGB fixtures were twice as bright with a dimmer and came in 2ft,3ft,4ft sizes they can easily replace a t5ho on any tank. It's only a matter of time.
 
#30 ·
This is a good thread, for me, at this particular moment. I have been using LED’s for about 9 years, beginning with the mainly reef-driven ones that were initially the focus (great algae growers!) and, for the last several years, have been using a combination of a Beamswork DA FSPEC and two GroBeam 600’s. I’m watching what appears to be an even greater improvement in just the last year or so. However, I am now at a crossroads and am throwing the T5’s back into consideration (and I carelessly threw my old reflector out about 8 years ago).

I recently noted a significant drop in output in the Beamswork (so gradual that I missed it until I took some PAR readings recently) and have concluded that these lower priced models are risky. So, I’m looking at either a Twinstar S or Fluval 3.0 - maybe a combination. However, although it’s not dramatically noticeable, I’ve grown a little weary of the shimmer effect. Plus, I’m getting a general impression that, despite LED dispersion advances, the T5’s may still provide the best bath of light, but I've not had any difficulty with plant performance when my LED's were at their peak performance.

Although pretty pictures don’t help me (they are usually the peak of a brief moment when everything is perfect), I do like the friendly comparisons that are being offered and would be interested in other angles that anyone has to offer. In the meantime, although I am leaning toward the above two LED’s, I would be interested in your offer, @Greggz (and other T5 users), to PM me about your recommendations for T5 bulbs, reflectors and bulb arrangements.

Keep this thread going!
 
#31 ·
In the meantime, although I am leaning toward the above two LED’s, I would be interested in your offer, @Greggz (and other T5 users), to PM me about your recommendations for T5 bulbs, reflectors and bulb arrangements.

Keep this thread going!
Here's the thing. T5HO bulbs come in a variety of colors, and a variety of PAR intensities.

So the tricky part is finding the combination that provides you the PAR and color you are looking for. As to PAR, a four bulb set up could provide anywhere from medium to VERY high light, depending on the bulbs and distance from the substrate.

With a typical 4 bulb set up, a good combination might be a good red and blue bulb (Powerveg 420,633,660), combined with a daylight and flora bulb. In general, most heavily colored bulbs are lower PAR, so you can mix in some high PAR bulbs like Giesemann Super Flora or Tropic to get the PAR up.

But really, it's a matter of personal taste, and what looks the best to your eye.

A little while back I tested and posted pics of a variety of combinations (link below). As you will see, the bulb combination can make the same tank look quite different, not to mention the effect on PAR.

FWIW, my current mix is the following, which creates about 135 PAR at the substrate. I can change the PAR quite a bit by just changing out one or two bulbs, and raising or lowering the fixture just a bit.

Giesemann Super Flora
Giesemann Tropic
Giesemann Super Purple
Powerveg 660
Truelumen Flora
Truelumen Flora


https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1020497-greggz-120g-rainbow-fish-tank-almost-back-normal-10-12-2019-a-171.html#post11220149
 
#46 ·
[quoteBut who knows, maybe I am just an old fuddy duddy........but I am pretty sure that very soon T5 will be like tube amps, vinyl, and Polaroids........all the cool kids will be wanting them!!!!][/quote]
@Greggz...your reference to tube amps has me wondering if you are an audiophile on the side? :)
 
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#47 ·
But who knows, maybe I am just an old fuddy duddy........but I am pretty sure that very soon T5 will be like tube amps, vinyl, and Polaroids........all the cool kids will be wanting them!!!! @Greggz...your reference to tube amps has me wondering if you are an audiophile on the side? :)
I agree with you 100%.
The T5HO are now on the same stage as the vacuum tubes, metal casings and glass later and Polaroid. We can add germanium and selenium semiconductors, Video-2000, VHS, one foot video disc, Beta video, and so many other technologies, don’t forget the legendary 5.25” floppy discs. But I still use 250W HQI 10K metal halides because they are spectacular just like the T5HO are. We cannot get rid of them because they work so well. The “new” trend of the forgotten 1980’s disco lights in the form of today’s RGB LEDs is not for everyone. But you are right, one day, we will have to give up the good stuff and go with what the corporations want to push on us, so they can make money on the so called progress. Unfortunately, that’s the way the world works.
 
#51 ·
I still have my two Technics 1200s from 1993, and sixteen crates of vinyl. Format wars are stupid, but vinyl is fun to DJ.
 
#54 ·
When I was working at a record store, and buying all that vinyl (techno, house, ambient, tech-house), I also bought the same stuff on CD. One was an analog slow-consumable that was only to be used for special occasions, and the other was a permanent record of the music I loved. The digital stuff is in my pocket, but I have not played a record in almost two decades. However, I will never sell, and I will beat match again.

Cheers
 
#56 ·
Don't make me check the age on my parents' Victrola!

I was a good local tech-house DJ in Boulder, and then I remembered that I was an introvert.

So IT and aquariums for me.
 
#59 ·
Can I now please get a reply on my old 2025 light? Either a freshwater swap-out, or I give it away to a reefer.

Please.
 
#72 · (Edited)
I have five Fluval Nano 3.0 lights that I love, but this is a rimmed 16G bowfront that can’t fit the Nano, and is a little narrow for the 24 inch unit. I may still get it, but I might try to remove the ends. I’m also tempted by the Finnex Planted Plus and the Current USA LED.

However, I’m willing to try a T5. I’m open to suggestions.

Cheers
 
#73 ·
I have five Fluval Nano 3.0 lights that I love, but this is a rimmed 16G bowfront that can’t fit the Nano, and is a little narrow for the 24 inch unit. I may still get it, but I might try to remove the ends. I’m also tempted by the Finnex Planted Plus and the Current USA LED.

However, I’m willing to try a T5. I’m open to suggestions.

Cheers

Cheers
I guide toward LED but, as you can see throughout this thread, there are many that prefer T5 (even metal halide) ...and with good reasons.

If you go with LED, the lesson I have learned is to buy more intensity than you need and dim it. This should allow for compensation as the diodes gradually lose potency (T5's also fade over time) as well as extending the life, since heat is reduced from maximum rating. I am a proponent of considering a serious lighting purchase to also include a PAR meter (Seneye is common). Take a reading when you first install the new light, dim as necessary to achieve desired PAR, then monitor PAR every 6 months, or so, to ensure consistency of PAR.
 
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