T5 vs LED - Page 7 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #91 of 106 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 06:16 PM
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I don’t know, it is pretty outdated technology, the website is abandoned and two years old. Truth is, ADA also stopped using white LEDs in their fixtures.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghaiqx4AzcI

Yea but that isn't exactly "ideal" depending on goals.
As to ADA they also spike green in some lights.. Certainly more than natural..


Like I said it's a choice.


PERSONALLY, though punchy RGB are not a preferred "look to me"..
Got thing thing about holes in the spectrum..
https://www.researchgate.net/profile...nm-green-l.png

https://www.researchgate.net/profile...e-types-of.png

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post #92 of 106 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 06:57 PM
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Got thing thing about holes in the spectrum..
Do you feel the same way when you watch TVs? Almost all are only RGB spectrum emitters and they can mix any colour imaginable.



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post #93 of 106 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 07:31 PM
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Do you feel the same way when you watch TVs? Almost all are only RGB spectrum emitters and they can mix any colour imaginable.


our current main TV...
https://www.amazon.com/Mitsubishi-WD.../dp/B001XUR5FO
Quote:
6-Color Processor for a wider range of colors, brighter colors and whiter whites



sooo ..yes..


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post #94 of 106 (permalink) Old 11-02-2019, 06:26 AM
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our current main TV...
https://www.amazon.com/Mitsubishi-WD.../dp/B001XUR5FO





sooo ..yes..

Still rockin the DLP. Jeff its time for an upgrade!
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post #95 of 106 (permalink) Old 11-02-2019, 06:50 AM
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Still rockin the DLP. Jeff its time for an upgrade!

As soon as the OLED lifespan issue is fixed..and cheaper
Don't get me started on black levels..




Sadly, unlike aquarium lights, I can't build my own..
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post #96 of 106 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 04:01 PM
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Last edited by Edward; Yesterday at 09:42 PM. Reason: Double post
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post #97 of 106 (permalink) Old 11-09-2019, 03:47 AM
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@Xiaozhuang perfectly sums up the difference between RGBW and RGB fixtures in this post:
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However, I said what I said as it is also based on what I observe from general aquarists views/actions. They may say they want accurate color rendition, but other than biotope enthusiasts and/or botanists, what many aquarists prefer is lighting that give higher and stronger color contrast, overwhelmingly so, (and not necessarily natural or accurate tones in that sense). And I see this across cultures (both east and west) - many folks constantly changing lighting fixtures till they get that look. Human's color perception (and indeed of reality itself) is extremely circumstantial as well as easily manipulated. For example, the first time you see an ADA RGB fixture in real life - you would instantly feel that the green is super/over saturated, and that the reds are exaggerated as well. However, if you spend 5 minutes in the ADA gallery, with all tanks lit similarly, your eyes get used to it and you get the feeling that everything just has a good contrast. Trained photographers probably still retain their objectivity, but most folks will just sink into the "new reality". In our tanks similarly we create fantasies of natural surroundings, try to create an insane amount of depth in a laughably small space etc. To that extent, I feel that for most aquarists, anything that complements/improves the illusion, which humans delight in anyway, should be done.
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post #98 of 106 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 05:24 PM
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@Xiaozhuang perfectly sums up the difference between RGBW and RGB fixtures in this post:

Funny, that is really putting LED vs LED..
And the "shadows" due to light geometry will always create a err "deeper" look than any tubes..






Quote:
you would instantly feel that the green is super/over saturated, and that the reds are exaggerated as well.
Think that is worth pondering a moment, and yes there is a philosophical difference but it's the nuance that matters to some..



how many shades of colors are missing we/ JUST RGB?

NOTE: Prob. a bit of an exaggeration but point holds.
with the correct RGB diodes at the correct output it's possible to hit a CRI of 95-ish..
A little decent high K (6500k or greater) white won't hurt..
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post #99 of 106 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 08:21 PM
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I wish I had your experience with LEDs.
What do you mean by “And the "shadows" due to light geometry will always create a err "deeper" look than any tubes..” ?

Tubes make scapes look flatter than metal halides and LEDs. I use metal halides and like the dynamic look, shadows and shimmer effect. The temperature is 10 000 K and colour of plants look great, but the white portion is too strong, we almost have to use sunglasses. I see RGB LED fixtures producing also the great looking colours, though minus the disturbing white overload.

Bellow, I created four pictures for a comparison, these are only illustrations and not real shots.

10K Metal Halide:


RGBW:


T5HO Colour Tubes:


RGB:



“how many shades of colors are missing we/ JUST RGB?”
None when levels are set correctly. Tubes don’t have this option, we can swap few predetermined colours and that’s it.

I think the CRI is the way tubes were classified and it was the only way for us to choose the right ones. It has little to do with aquariums when we think LEDs today.


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post #100 of 106 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 10:22 PM
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My above chart is from Chihiros WRGB..
There is a lack (when excluding the whites) of sufficient light in the 470-500nm spectrum .. If you had a pure pigment that reflected say just 480nm light it would appear at best weak.
Same w/ the 570-610nm range, or >650.
Now few of these may exist in nature but the point still is some unrepresented spectrum.
W/ things w/ a range of reflectance the seperation is less, so much appears monotone..

Now it may be a matter of photos but that's what I see w/ ADA and many RGB tanks.. monotone BRIGHT greens w/ little subtlety in shade.

Tubes can be the same BUT they have one advantage, they use RGB phosphors which by their nature SMEAR more across the spectrum than narrow spectrum emitters..w/ the exception of the sharp Mercury emission peaks esp in the green. So it's not perfect either..



Can't EXACTLY say it definitely but a GE starcoat should have a slight advantage in color over a RGB LED yet apper less so due to the "crispness" of the narrow spectrum LED peaks..
Yes, you heard it here.. T5's edge LEd's..
It's my old windmill.. lack of cyan range in the LED..
fortunately many LED greens are err sloppy..


Will be the last time for that though.. LOL

Once you start adding "colored tubes" you start to really overdrive color in my OPINION, where the RGB LED wins out..

TO BE honest, a lot of this is real nit picky..

Note2: GE starcoats are listed as "only" 85CRI..
https://products.currentbyge.com/sit..._T5_Ecolux.pdf

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post #101 of 106 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 11:35 PM
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CRI isnt really the best thing to go by if you want your colors to pop (esp red).

https://blog.1000bulbs.com/home/is-c...etter-than-cri

From personal experience I bought some 5000-6500K T5HO, non-aquarium brand with 90+ CRI...and they looked like crap.


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post #102 of 106 (permalink) Old Today, 12:32 AM
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jeffkrol
I wish I had your experience with LEDs.
What do you mean by “And the "shadows" due to light geometry will always create a err "deeper" look than any tubes..” ?

Tubes make scapes look flatter than metal halides and LEDs. I use metal halides and like the dynamic look, shadows and shimmer effect. The temperature is 10 000 K and colour of plants look great, but the white portion is too strong, we almost have to use sunglasses. I see RGB LED fixtures producing also the great looking colours, though minus the disturbing white overload.

Bellow, I created four pictures for a comparison, these are only illustrations and not real shots.

10K Metal Halide:


RGBW:


T5HO Colour Tubes:


RGB:



“how many shades of colors are missing we/ JUST RGB?”
None when levels are set correctly. Tubes don’t have this option, we can swap few predetermined colours and that’s it.

I think the CRI is the way tubes were classified and it was the only way for us to choose the right ones. It has little to do with aquariums when we think LEDs today.


I do not agree with anything you just said.
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post #103 of 106 (permalink) Old Today, 01:07 AM
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I do not agree with anything you just said.
Perfect, how do you see it?
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Originally Posted by burr740 View Post
CRI isnt really the best thing to go by if you want your colors to pop (esp red).

https://blog.1000bulbs.com/home/is-c...etter-than-cri

From personal experience I bought some 5000-6500K T5HO, non-aquarium brand with 90+ CRI...and they looked like crap.
For me too. Great CRI creates dull presentations.


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post #104 of 106 (permalink) Old Today, 01:15 AM
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CRI isnt really the best thing to go by if you want your colors to pop (esp red).

https://blog.1000bulbs.com/home/is-c...etter-than-cri

From personal experience I bought some 5000-6500K T5HO, non-aquarium brand with 90+ CRI...and they looked like crap.

That's either an old article or one w/ old information..



"Modern" CRI measurements have 15 color swatches including saturated Red, green, blue, yellow "foliage" green flesh tone and white..Both 93.3..


also doesn't distinguish between high K CRI and low K CRI which uses a different standard to be measured against.

One a tungsten lamp at about 2700K-ish the other daylight..


And equal CRI's can have very different look.


As a hypothetical EXTREME a light w/ 100 on all patches but zero on red will have the same CRI score (average) as one w/ 100 on all patches but zero blue..
since various patches sort of "work together" the above is probably not technically possible but gives one an idea..

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post #105 of 106 (permalink) Old Today, 01:27 AM
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Its from 2016


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