How should I setup my lightning? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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Question How should I setup my lightning?

Hey! So I'm new to Aquascaping and I've just started my first tank. I've done a lot of research but I'm still unsure how to set up the lights in my tank. I'm currently running a Juwel HeliaLux Led-ramp 28 watts together with two T5's but I'm unsure if this is too much lightning and that it would cause an algae outbreak? (33,5 lumens/liter)

I run the Ledbar 8 hours a day on full luminosity and the T5's 4 hours a day. So 4 hours of 3500 lumen and 4 hours of 6700 lumen.
To make the matter more complicated I also have a Juwel Day/Night control timer which I use to dim my Led-Bar. So the total running time for my Ledbar is more like 12 hours a day but it gradually dims the light from 0 luminosity to maximum under 2 hours each morning and evening creating a Dawn/Dusk effect.

How should I set up the lightning to thrive plant growth while also keep algae under control (hours)? Keep in mind I'd also like to have that Dawn/Dusk effect with the timer so I can see the tank "wake up" and " go to sleep" each day.

Specs:
Juwel Lido 200l (Roughly 52 gallons)
Juwel internal filter
Lights:
Juwel HeliaLux Led 28 watts 3500 lumens
2x Juwel T5 (approx 1600 lumens each)
Plants:
Monte Carlo
Staurogyne repens
Riccia fluitans
Alternanthera reineckii Rosanervig
Anubias
Java fern
Substrate:
Ecs Clay-substrate
JBL root fertilizer
Tropica Aqua Soil
Fertilizer:
Liquid Co2 Happy Carbo, planning on replacing it with pressurized.
Weekly PMDD, Micro and Macronutrients.


Thank you all in advance, would greatly appreciate anyone's help.
/Q
I hope I made everything clear, otherwise just ask
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/Q
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 03:33 PM
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It's kind of a science experiment to figure that out that you are running on your own tank, and it looks like the tank is quite new with plants that haven't really established themselves or grown in yet so it's likely to change as it goes a bit...

"liquid co2" or glutaraldehyde I find is more of an algaecide than a significant source of carbon, if you work out how much carbon you are adding to the tank at regular dosing levels it's a miniscule amount. I think those things are advertised the way they are just to avoid uhhh extra legal overhead/bureaucracy. May I suggest you just go ahead and kill the riccia with fire now?

Juwel stuff is pretty rare here in the states... but the lido 200l is 65cm or ~26" tall so I'm going to say your light is probably not too high, especially once you have some real co2 hooked up.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wobblebonk View Post
It's kind of a science experiment to figure that out that you are running on your own tank, and it looks like the tank is quite new with plants that haven't really established themselves or grown in yet so it's likely to change as it goes a bit...
Yes, the picture was taken just a few days after planting. So the plants need some more time to establish I guess. Time has to tell... But I should be more conservative in the beginning, especially before I get some proper Co2?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wobblebonk View Post
"liquid co2" or glutaraldehyde I find is more of an algaecide than a significant source of carbon, if you work out how much carbon you are adding to the tank at regular dosing levels it's a miniscule amount. I think those things are advertised the way they are just to avoid uhhh extra legal overhead/bureaucracy. May I suggest you just go ahead and kill the riccia with fire now?
So you are saying that Liquid carbon like "Easylife Easy Carbon" is essentially just glutaraldehyde? I thought those where completely different things? It should be better than nothing shouldn't it?
What do you mean, you don't like my Riccia?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wobblebonk View Post
Juwel stuff is pretty rare here in the states... but the lido 200l is 65cm or ~26" tall so I'm going to say your light is probably not too high, especially once you have some real co2 hooked up.
Yes correct, sorry maybe I should've included the measurements in the description. It's a tall, boxy tank with quite unusual dimensions so there are around 22 inches from light to the substrate. I have been looking up real Co2 systems but it's quite expensive, especially for a student like me. I have been opting to go for a homemade Co2 system with citric acid and baking soda, just like the one "The king of DIY" made on YT. (
) But I'm afraid it might not produce enough Co2 for my tank (52 gallons). I have been reading about that most Co2 doesn't dissolve in the water, it just floats up like bubbles, so I was thinking about hooking up my diffuser inside my internal filter so that the impeller dissolves the Co2 into even smaller bubbles, thus making the citric acid method more effective for my tank. I'm also gonna hook up an air pump that will run on nighttime so it will help remove excess Co2 so it doesn't kill my fishy. Am I completely in the wrongdoing here or could it work? (It's kind of a new topic I know) My goal with this is hopefully to get some healthy plant growth and some carpeting from my Monte Carlo.

Thank you for taking your time replying to and helping me Wobblebonk, much appreciated.
/Q

/Q
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 08:00 PM
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Yeah I would go a little more conservative to start and work your way up as things grow in and you add co2.

Hah I don't hate YOUR riccia, it's just that in some of my tanks riccia is a cancer that I can't get out of the tank without going through quite an ordeal...

Yes all of the "liquid carbons" I've ever looked at are essentially glutaraldehyde, excel, enhance liquid carbon etc. I use the gallon size of metricide 14 (throw away/dispose of the activator bottle) as it's much cheaper, but I don't daily dose any tanks with it just an occasional algae dose when I've fallen way behind on maintenance. I've kinda got a lot of tanks it's hard to keep up on all of them.

You might be able to get by with the diy co2 I'm too lazy for that though so I am not that experienced using diy co2.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 09:23 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Wobblebonk View Post
Yeah I would go a little more conservative to start and work your way up as things grow in and you add co2.

Hah I don't hate YOUR riccia, it's just that in some of my tanks riccia is a cancer that I can't get out of the tank without going through quite an ordeal...
Yes, conservative and learning process.
Hahaha, well it's the first time I have Riccia so I just randomly glued it to some places. I'll have to see how it turns out. Some of it is falling off and just circles around floating everywhere for the moment. Maybe I'll burn it in the future but for now I'm happy as long as it grows. Trimming will be hard though, especially to make it look good on that filter (Above picture)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wobblebonk View Post
Yes all of the "liquid carbons" I've ever looked at are essentially glutaraldehyde, excel, enhance liquid carbon etc. I use the gallon size of metricide 14 (throw away/dispose of the activator bottle) as it's much cheaper, but I don't daily dose any tanks with it just an occasional algae dose when I've fallen way behind on maintenance. I've kinda got a lot of tanks it's hard to keep up on all of them.
Yeah, you're probably right. I just add it for now because everyone seems to state that your plants will not grow or just die without Co2. I have a theory though, regarding Co2.
Should I use my air pump 24/7 until I get my Co2 system in place? Since there are currently only 1 fish in the tank and no added Co2 the only way for my plants to get Co2 would be from air and circulation? So if I use the air pump it would circulate some extra (even though if little) Air/Co2 in the tank?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wobblebonk View Post
You might be able to get by with the diy co2 I'm too lazy for that though so I am not that experienced using diy co2.
No real experience from me either. If I try it I will post my results here on the forum. For now it just seems like the better option since I'm so poor and cheap.

/Q
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 10:45 PM
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Some plants have a hard time without pressurized co2 but I think it's an exagerration to say plants in general won't grow or just die without it. I mean sure if you could completely remove it but that's kinda crazy. I've got plenty of tanks that receive no pressurized co2 or glut that are doing okay, some plants don't do so hot but plenty of plants are just fine. They don't grow as fast, which can be a good thing if you don't want to trim and replant things all the time. Unless you are doing all ro we all have different tap water too so you may just need to do some trial and error to see what plants grow well in your tank/water.

I'm not sure about your co2/air pump theory but I will say that I try for high co2 & high o2 when using pressurized co2 and often have co2 hooked up with sumps or air going 24/7 which people seem to think is a bad idea :/
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-10-2019, 04:02 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wobblebonk View Post
Some plants have a hard time without pressurized co2 but I think it's an exagerration to say plants in general won't grow or just die without it. I mean sure if you could completely remove it but that's kinda crazy. I've got plenty of tanks that receive no pressurized co2 or glut that are doing okay, some plants don't do so hot but plenty of plants are just fine. They don't grow as fast, which can be a good thing if you don't want to trim and replant things all the time. Unless you are doing all ro we all have different tap water too so you may just need to do some trial and error to see what plants grow well in your tank/water.
Yes agreed, seems to be an exaggeration. I just hope my monte carlo atleast root itself and doesn't die off without it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wobblebonk View Post
I'm not sure about your co2/air pump theory but I will say that I try for high co2 & high o2 when using pressurized co2 and often have co2 hooked up with sumps or air going 24/7 which people seem to think is a bad idea :/
I mean, I use my air pump now and let it cycle my water since there is no fish or Co2 system to give me more Co2. When all my plants have used the Co2 in the water where are they supposed to get new Co2 from? If I push more air into my tank there should be some more added Co2 that's naturally occurring in the air? The air pump could also be beneficial for bacteria in my tank since I'm still in the process of cycling the tank?
Another thing that arose today is that I'm starting to get some BGA (Cyano) in my tank that keeps growing slowly day by day. It's now starting to cover some of my anubias and along the substrate. Should I worry about this and try fight it off or let it be? I've read that Cyano usually occurs in the startup from the lack of other bacteria competing with it. It could also be because of high phosphate and lack of nitrate? Should I do a larger water change (50%) and try even out nutrients level in the tank?

Here is a picture of the Cyano/BGA, I've oversaturated it to make it easier to see.

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/Q

Last edited by Darkblade48; 05-11-2019 at 04:55 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-10-2019, 04:24 PM
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Well I don't think it hurts anything to run air when there's no pressurized co2 anyhow. Besides equalizing with the atmosphere, decaying matter or respiration can add some co2 but since there's no livestock and you just set it up, it won't be getting a whole lot of that. I've hardly ever have gotten bga, maybe twice? and it never really took hold... you can try spot treating (turn the filter off briefly and squirt it directly with a syringe) it for a few days with your "liquid carbon" or h2o2 (use h2o2 on anubias it doesn't like spot treatment with glut) and if that doesn't work there's always blacking out the lights for a few days, or Maracyn II but that might delay your cycling as well...

Actually the liquid carbon products are also a sterilizer of sorts and will slow down cycling a little bit as well, though it's not that bad if you are doing the recommended daily doses instead of one time larger doses to kill algae like I do sometimes.

Some people do lots of water changes to fight it but uhhh like I said I've hardly ever had to do much about cyanobacteria.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-10-2019, 04:37 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Wobblebonk View Post
Well I don't think it hurts anything to run air when there's no pressurized co2 anyhow. Besides equalizing with the atmosphere, decaying matter or respiration can add some co2 but since there's no livestock and you just set it up, it won't be getting a whole lot of that. I've hardly ever have gotten bga, maybe twice? and it never really took hold... you can try spot treating (turn the filter off briefly and squirt it directly with a syringe) it for a few days with your "liquid carbon" or h2o2 (use h2o2 on anubias it doesn't like spot treatment with glut) and if that doesn't work there's always blacking out the lights for a few days, or Maracyn II but that might delay your cycling as well...

Actually the liquid carbon products are also a sterilizer of sorts and will slow down cycling a little bit as well, though it's not that bad if you are doing the recommended daily doses instead of one time larger doses to kill algae like I do sometimes.

Some people do lots of water changes to fight it but uhhh like I said I've hardly ever had to do much about cyanobacteria.
Thank you! I've read about that and I'll try it if it gets worse. (Just need to get a hold of a syringe...) I think I'm just gonna do as Paul and let it be for now. Try rubb most of it off and then do a large water change. Didn't know that liquid carbo had that sterilizing effect, but it makes sense since it's chemicals
I will hook up my air pump in a few days and just wait. I'll update if there's any visual change.

/Q
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-10-2019, 05:36 PM
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I mean the one I use "metricide 14" is literally a sterilizing agent for hospitals and is 2.5 or 2.6% glut instead of the 1.5% most aquarium products are at (just dose less volume), they have an additive that ships in a separate bottle that either drops the ph real low or real high (I forgot which) to make it even more effective, but it still is somewhat effective even without that. For aquarium use you just throw the "activator" away. But they also dump a lot of it into rivers (hospitals do) and so there are some studies on how it affects the bacteria in rivers.

Also when they use it to sterilize stuff they aren't dropping a small amount into gallons of water it's just straight into the 2.5% glut solution.
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-10-2019, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Wobblebonk View Post
I mean the one I use "metricide 14" is literally a sterilizing agent for hospitals and is 2.5 or 2.6% glut instead of the 1.5% most aquarium products are at (just dose less volume)

errr.. there is a question about IF that still holds true..
Excel seems to have upped their % to match Met 14 concentration.. but don't quote me..
Sounds like me..


Quote:
I did my research and found that the formula for Excel appears to have changed. Old posts said that Excel was 1.5% Glutaraldehyde. New Excel label says that its 2.5% Polycycloglutaracetal , but the dosing instructions remain unchanged:

https://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...d-formula.html

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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-10-2019, 06:11 PM
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Interesting... still significantly more expensive by volume, the nilocg one still just says 1.5% glut .5% citric acid, I can't actually find data on Happy Carbo... but
"Happy Carbo is more concentrated than most similar products.

A 250 ml bottle can be used to treat 12500 L of water.


Dosage: 1ml for 100L with a normal planting.
Up to 2 ml for 50L for highly planted aquariums."

Which is 2ml per 13g? Who knows :O
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Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
errr.. there is a question about IF that still holds true..
Excel seems to have upped their % to match Met 14 concentration.. but don't quote me..
Sounds like me..





https://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...d-formula.html
Polycyclogutaracetal is just a technical way of saying what gluteraldehyde turns into in water. Burr is correct that the difference is essentially semantics.

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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you, everyone, for helping. Just wanted to update and say that I had a major outbreak of Cyano, mainly due to that I've been away for a couple of days and didn't do anything about it in the beginning. It's probably due to a deficiency in other bacteria competing with it but could also be a spike in PO4, so I did a 50% water change and only added micronutrients. I'm not too concerned since cyano is easy to clean up, and it has mostly settled on rocks and substrate, not that much on plants.
Hopefully it will do the trick.

/Q
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