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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-30-2019, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
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This is hilarious

Get ready to pay more for less for no reason. Production gets cheaper as your product ages except in this industry.

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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-30-2019, 06:42 PM
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Hi @gus6464,

Likely imported from China and the price increase is a result of the tariffs.

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75 Gallon, 2X55W AH Supply CF 8800K, 1XFluval F&P 2.0; 45 Gallon Tall, 96Watt AH Supply CF 6700K; 30 Gallon Long; Fluval F&P 2.0; 20 Gallon, 1X26W AH Supply LED; all with CO2 and (Calcined) Montmorillonite Clay
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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-30-2019, 06:46 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist View Post
Hi @gus6464,

Likely imported from China and the price increase is a result of the tariffs.
Their stuff is already expensive enough that they could eat the tariff.
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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-30-2019, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gus6464 View Post
Their stuff is already expensive enough that they could eat the tariff.
Quote:
Nail two things together that have never been nailed together before and some schmuck in this country will buy it from you.

George Carlin

With my tank as an obvious exception I normally just can't go with the highest priced gear.

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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-30-2019, 08:21 PM
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Last estimate was 10% hike..

Quote:
Their stuff is already expensive enough that they could eat the tariff.
not the "American Way".... shareholders need their cut and so do CEO's..
There is a funny story of US cars vs Honda and them cutting their profit margin to still be #1 seller..
US "business" couldn't UNDERSTAND it .. at all..
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"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-30-2019, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
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Someone did a BOM on the xr30 a could of years ago and their markup is quite insane. Something like 400% on the BOM and even if you count r&d you still looking at 200%+. Plus they use the absolute cheapest power supplies you can buy in bulk.
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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 12:57 AM
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Funny.. darned if you do darned if you don't with you.
DIY is "not cheap" yet retail are over-priced..

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 01:25 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
Funny.. darned if you do darned if you don't with you.
DIY is "not cheap" yet retail are over-priced..
I never said all retail is over-priced actually only certain units. And yes DIY is not cheap which is a factual statement. You like to push DIY to people with "price calculations" yet in the real world those prices are never entirely accurate. Most people don't have soldering irons, saws, etc. to make DIY lights yet you always seem to leave that out of the equation in order to push your DIY is best agenda. I like to tell it how it is and DIY is never as cheap as people like to push around here unless you are using bottom of the barrel components in which case what's the point when you can just buy the same cheap thing directly from China. You are rarely going to find a person who jumps into DIY and already has all the tools.

A $200 Twinstar 600S will color plants all day long better than the XR15FW. The dimming and multi-channel function of the XR15 does nothing when it comes to coloring the plants so why do you consider it "the best"? There are tons of examples of stunning tanks online with tons of color running the 600S yet I have yet to see an XR15 tank at that same level.
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 02:10 AM
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Never really said it was "best" but an "option"..
People are smart enough o figure the "add ons" themselves..
Quote:
There are tons of examples of stunning tanks online with tons of color running the 600S yet I have yet to see an XR15 tank at that same level.
Gee there aren't a lot of tanks w/ $700 lights over it.. "go figure"...

The Radion "automation" and channel selections IS part of the "the best" equation
but I think, again, people are smart enough to know why...

BTW I bought a $100 Hakko soldering station when I figured I do more than one light..
But to be honest it's not really part of the equation.
soldering has always be a common thing in my life..and many DIY people I've err "coached" have the tools (more or less) already..

tools are tools..
I also have a $10 O2 sensor socket I've used exactly once.. saved me hundreds..
DIY isn't for everyone.. never said it was..

Twinstar is $200, AI prime is $200 same wattage approx..

Last edited by jeffkrol; 01-31-2019 at 02:29 AM. Reason: edit
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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 02:41 AM
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Most people who are into DIY are also into tools. For those people, (myself included) tools are not a part of the equation. Tools are an asset that can be used over and over again in many different applications.
I do agree that DIY is not a way to save money though. For myself it is for the challenge and fun of Doing It Myself. I want to make exactly what I want. And I want it to do exactly what I want it to do.
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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 04:50 AM
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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 05:44 AM
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For fun.. "Best diodes" and retail base parts..
AI "clone".
Now this doesn't mean one couldn't build one for less (or more)
AND heat sink/itty bitty parts and case not included:


"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."
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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by gus6464 View Post
I never said all retail is over-priced actually only certain units. And yes DIY is not cheap which is a factual statement. You like to push DIY to people with "price calculations" yet in the real world those prices are never entirely accurate.
To realize any savings in DIY lights, I believe one needs to use the least expensive parts. Cree COBs, Epileds, and 1/16" angle aluminum instead of purpose built heat sinks. Instead of a Bluefish, use a TC421.

That said, I belive fixtures like the Twinstar use cheap leds, there is no inherent superiority to diodes they use. In fact, there isn't much difference between a Beamswork DA FSPEC and the Twinstar. They are both fixed RGBW, but (I think) the twinstar comes with a diffuser, and the white may be a bit warmer.

The problem with DIY isn't one of price, but of being able to recreate the desired effect.

My current DIY light is only using 12x Cree COBS (1.20/ea) and 26 Deep Red 660nm Epileds (.60/ea) on three LDD-L drivers. This system approximates the look of a Finnex Fugeray Planted+, provides 150+ PAR at the substrate, and could be built for $75, including TC421 and power supply.

Future DIY lights I build will be variations on this theme. High-K white + large# Deep Red diodes with or without controller. This look just works. Adding blues and greens might be able to fine tune the look, but getting the White/Red ratio correct gets you 95% of the way there.


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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 09:52 PM
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Heatsinks are cheap, fancy heatsinks that look good aren't

That's my limiting price factor usually- the LEDs and power/drivers are the cheap part. Making it look presentable on a budget is the big hurdle...


(slightly off topic- I really wish the regular MakersLED sink came in black, rather than the cheap looking silver/natural finish, as it would look much more professional)


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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 10:22 PM
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If this is all based on Drs. Foster and Smith, I read somewhere that Petco will be... ceasing sales? through that name? Not sure how to word it. But it will be closing down with the exception of LiveAquaria if I read things right. It could be the reason for the price hike unless these prices and things are based on multiple websites.

Bump: If this is all based on Drs. Foster and Smith, I read somewhere that Petco will be... ceasing sales? through that name? Not sure how to word it. But it will be closing down with the exception of LiveAquaria if I read things right. It could be the reason for the price hike unless these prices and things are based on multiple websites.

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