Planning a new build for my 25g - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-01-2018, 06:42 PM Thread Starter
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Planning a new build for my 25g

Hi
I'm planning a new build for my planted 25g, which is still lighted by that "temporary" fixture i build 2 years ago... around 40-50w of 8520 smds.
I have now some more soil/plants + CO2 injection so in need of some more decent lighting
Not planning a whole controller thing for now so i want to keep it simple/cheap

I did a whole lot of reading/researching but it's still quite hard to choose.
But thanks to this forum community (jeffkrol/Lingwendil/SpringHalo helped a lot) i have narrowed down my list to 3 options, all with COB main white :

1. CREE
> CREE CXA1304 6500K 80+CRI
> + (maybe) CREE CXA1304 3000K 93+CRI
> + Luxeon Rebel cyan
> + Luxeon Rebel deep red
> + (maybe) some royal blue
> + (maybe) some UV
(The more versatile option -number of chips + colors-)

2. Lumileds
> Lumileds "Fresh fish" 6500k
> + Luxeon Rebel deep red
(The more simple option, but limited for the placement, the chips being 30w each)

2. Bridgelux
> Bridgelux EB gen2 5700K
> + Luxeon Rebel royal blue
> + Luxeon Rebel cyan
> + Luxeon Rebel deep red
(I would have already tried those in another tank if they wouldnt be so hard to find in Europe...)

What do you guys think ? I am now looking a the power requirements for these options maybe this will help to choose

Thanks a lot
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post #2 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-02-2018, 01:42 AM
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Not sure which I would pick, but Arrow carries the EB strips and it looks like they have free international shipping on $50+ orders. You could get power supplies and/or drivers from them as well
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post #3 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-02-2018, 06:27 AM
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Don't think that EB Gen2 5700K needs supplementation. I will let you know in a couple of weeks how my tank with Gen 2 strips does with reds like AR Mini and also trying to get some reds out of Blyxa. It's also the easiest thing in the world to power with a $11 Meanwell APC-35-700 for 2x 56cm strips.
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post #4 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-03-2018, 10:02 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffrey2568 View Post
Not sure which I would pick, but Arrow carries the EB strips and it looks like they have free international shipping on $50+ orders. You could get power supplies and/or drivers from them as well
Thanks, funny enough i had already a cart saved with 2 strips and the PS for 35$

Quote:
Originally Posted by gus6464 View Post
Don't think that EB Gen2 5700K needs supplementation. I will let you know in a couple of weeks how my tank with Gen 2 strips does with reds like AR Mini and also trying to get some reds out of Blyxa. It's also the easiest thing in the world to power with a $11 Meanwell APC-35-700 for 2x 56cm strips.
Yep i saw your build, hope those plants will grow fast so we can see the result. My tank is already grown up with some reds in it so i should be able to give a good before/after pic with thoses strips installed

Now all i have to do is to decide how many of these i want. 2 strips should be enough, but i'm tempted to go with 3 to be safe (4 sounds like a bad idea, but correct me if i'm wrong).
What about dimming ? Does a power source with dimming capabilities would work ? For instance the Meanwell IDLC-45-700 looks like a good fit (for 3x 560mm strips)
(3 strips + the IDLC-45-700 adds up to 52$, which would be perfect)

Thanks !
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post #5 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-05-2018, 12:28 AM
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I can't find much about the Meanwell IDLC, but 38-64VDC at 700mA looks good. Though I'm curious, how do you wire it?
You'll also need to get a controller to dim
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post #6 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-09-2018, 01:39 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffrey2568 View Post
I can't find much about the Meanwell IDLC, but 38-64VDC at 700mA looks good. Though I'm curious, how do you wire it?
You'll also need to get a controller to dim
That's a good question... i thought about it a lot but i am still unsure. I have basically 2 options :

Option A :
- 4 x 560mm bridgelux EB strips
- 1 x MeanWell ODLC-65A-700 (dimmable, DC12V output)
- 1 x cheap manual PWM controller (or arduino UNO)

Option B :
- 4 x 560mm bridgelux EB strips
- 2 x Meanwell APC-35-700 (or 1 x power supply, but i don't know what to look for : i don't know if the LDD-700 is the constant current regulator or if the power supply should be)
- 2 x Meanwell LDD-700L/H
- 1 x cheap manual PWM controller (or arduino UNO)

Is there and advantage of using drivers like the LDD-700H rather than a DIM capable power source ? (my guess is the driver allow to have one PS, so multiple channels if needed)

Last edited by Vinns; 04-09-2018 at 01:57 PM. Reason: Add some details
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post #7 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-09-2018, 02:05 PM
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0~10VDC and 10V PWM
vs 5V PWM....

Depends more on choice of controller than anything else..

Also w/ "add-ons" ie repeatedly buying an AC/DC converter when a simple LDD would do..

Power supplies (AC/DC part) will usually fail first over any of the other parts..
Longevity of LDD's is "apparently" quite long...Power supplies.. not so much.
It's a personal choice..

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."
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post #8 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-09-2018, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for your input, so if i want to use an arduino uno as controller going with LDD drivers makes more sense (for 5V pWM)
I think 0-5V PWM can go from 0% to 100%, when the 0-10V PWM can only go from like 20% (i'm not sure about that), wich would be great when adding sunset/sunrise effect.

So, not to make mistakes :
LDD-700H as rated for 36.4w each so need 2, and input voltage should be between 9/56V
4 strips = 54.4W total, so a 60W unit should be good (54.4 +/- 10%), no matter the voltage ? (12/24/48V...)

My new cart :
- 4 x 560mm bridgelux EB strips
- 1 x Meanwell IRM-60-12 (60w, 12v/5A)
- 2 x Meanwell LDD-700H
- Arduino uno

Sounds good ?
Thanks again
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post #9 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-09-2018, 03:36 PM
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Pretty sure the ODLC will dim to zero..but yes 5V PWM makes more sense w/ Aduino.. Saves a "complication".. Can be done, just needs some more "parts"..
You need to understand that LDD's are just voltage regulators mostly. and you "lose" 2-3V in translation..
12V power supply is "only" 9-10V out max....

This is not a complication for "all in one" drivers..

V(f)for those strips is 19.6V @700mA..

24V power supply is minimum.
1 LDD per strip
unless you put 2 in series.. then you need a 2x 19.6V power supply..(48) THEN you can run 2 strips off one LDD

Amp capacity.. just add LDD's up.. simple, inaccurate but simple..

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post #10 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-09-2018, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
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I'm starting to understand better thanks !
So if i go with 2 LDD powering 2 strips each, considering the losses/approximation would a 60W/48V PS be enough or should i go with a 75W one ? (MeanWell LPV-60-48 vs Meanwell RS-75-48)

And for curiosity/better understanding : what if i go with a 60W/48V PS and 2 LDD but want to power only 3 strips (so 1 LDD will be connected to only 1 strip) who would take the excessive power : the LDD or the strip ? (my guess is the strip, as the LDD would send the voltage it reads)
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post #11 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-09-2018, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinns View Post
I'm starting to understand better thanks !
So if i go with 2 LDD powering 2 strips each, considering the losses/approximation would a 60W/48V PS be enough or should i go with a 75W one ? (MeanWell LPV-60-48 vs Meanwell RS-75-48)
2 in series (not parallel) will need approx 42V.. but diodes only "see" 39.2V.
2 in series x 2 rows @ 700mA 55W Best to always add 10%..60W ps @ 48V roughly

4 LDDs would be 13.7W (19.6x .7) x 4 = 55W total

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinns View Post

And for curiosity/better understanding : what if i go with a 60W/48V PS and 2 LDD but want to power only 3 strips (so 1 LDD will be connected to only 1 strip) who would take the excessive power : the LDD or the strip ? (my guess is the strip, as the LDD would send the voltage it reads)
Doesn't matter... the LDD is a voltage regulator and efficient..will just change ps voltage.
differrnce between switching voltage regulators and linear.. Doesn't need to "absorb" losses.

LDD sends the voltage it needs to maintain current at set point..

voltage adds in series,
Current is divided by parallel..

suggest overpowering the PS in case one wants to add strips.....
24 or 48V..

Relatively cheap enough, don't worry about "waste" it's really minimal for modern switching power supplies..
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/ne...FcYHPwodpagNcg

Use more meanwell LDD's save on power supply.. Gets to be a wash in most cases..
https://www.ledsupply.com/enclosed-power-supplies

In this case, some saving
https://www.ledsupply.com/power-supp...y-24vdc-4.5amp
$15 and can run 6 LDD's at $7 each approx.
$15 plus 4x7 = 28 =$43

$34.00 (100W 48V) + $14 = $48

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."

Last edited by jeffkrol; 04-09-2018 at 05:34 PM. Reason: edit
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post #12 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-10-2018, 12:24 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks again for taking the time to explain it further, it makes a lot more sense

I'm going with 2 LDD (each driving 2 strips in series) which makes more sense to me (cost + design)
I think 4 strips should be plenty enough for a 25g (almost 10k lumens), but i will follow your advice and go with a 100W PS (RS-100-48) to add a little room if want to add some strips/colors in the future

Cart :
1x Meanwell RS-100-48
2x Meanwell LDD-700H
4 x 560mm 5700k bridgelux EB strips

That should be good
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post #13 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-10-2018, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinns View Post
Thanks again for taking the time to explain it further, it makes a lot more sense

I'm going with 2 LDD (each driving 2 strips in series) which makes more sense to me (cost + design)
I think 4 strips should be plenty enough for a 25g (almost 10k lumens), but i will follow your advice and go with a 100W PS (RS-100-48) to add a little room if want to add some strips/colors in the future

Cart :
1x Meanwell RS-100-48
2x Meanwell LDD-700H
4 x 560mm 5700k bridgelux EB strips

That should be good
Do you have plans for a heatsink and a dimming controller? I think a makersheatsink slim would work well with your power output and give you room for auxillary LEDs if you are ever so inclined. For controllers there still seem to be few inexpensive options, but I've had good luck with my TC-420, and I think @jeffkrol vouches for the TC-421 wifi version, though it needs slight modifications to control LDD drivers.

Instead of getting 4 identical strips of 5700k, I would suggest getting 2 strips of 3000k or 3500k next to the 2 5700k so you can choose to vary the color temperature depending on the time of day, for instance 5700k at noon or afternoon, slowly changing to 3500k at night. Combining the two at 50% power will give you ~4500k like natural sunlight. If you really like the 5700k look, even two strips running at 100% 700mA will give you more than enough light.

A few DIY tips:
Make sure you're getting the wired version of the LDD modules. They're $1 more than the pin-style but better for your purposes.
Those power supplies don't come with power plugs so you'll have to make one from a PC power cable.
To eliminate most soldering you can use 3-terminal "wago lever nut" connectors to connect everything.

Last edited by SpringHalo; 04-10-2018 at 01:27 PM. Reason: tips
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post #14 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-10-2018, 02:14 PM
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Good advice and an example of the "devil is in the details"
Quote:
I think @jeffkrol vouches for the TC-421 wifi version
Err I mention it, wouldn't say vouch for it.. Mentioned it was available and same mod can be done probably.

Unless you buy an LDD board to plug the "pinned" LDD's in it is best to get the wired.. LDD-700HW.
IF You get a plug in driver board and do not use a controller you NEED one w/ the "usual" pull down resistor to be removable.
Otherwise they won't light..

https://www.rapidled.com/ldd-h-4-driver-board/
Only jumper-ed board I know of..
https://www.rapidled.com/ldd-h-4-driver-board/

As tp sunrise/set.. another option is one more board/driver..
Can be short (single) and in-between the 2 rows 5600k..
Point is it's just for sunrise/set and won't run it full really.or necessarily close to full.

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."

Last edited by jeffkrol; 04-10-2018 at 02:29 PM. Reason: edit
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post #15 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-10-2018, 03:02 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpringHalo View Post
Do you have plans for a heatsink and a dimming controller? I think a makersheatsink slim would work well with your power output and give you room for auxillary LEDs if you are ever so inclined. For controllers there still seem to be few inexpensive options, but I've had good luck with my TC-420, and I think @jeffkrol vouches for the TC-421 wifi version, though it needs slight modifications to control LDD drivers.
Thanks for your advices
For the heatsink i will go with a basic aluminium profile, this is an old tank (with a plastic top) that i will change in the future for a rimless one so not going nuts on the design for now (and no need to with those strips, but i really see the advantage of the channeled heatsink when going with many sources)
Controller wise, i did look into the tc-420/21 and the "mosfet gate" mod to control LDD but i think it should be pretty fast to connect an arduino for basic dimming, and not too long for a sunset/sunrise effect (got a tiny rtc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpringHalo View Post
Instead of getting 4 identical strips of 5700k, I would suggest getting 2 strips of 3000k or 3500k next to the 2 5700k so you can choose to vary the color temperature depending on the time of day, for instance 5700k at noon or afternoon, slowly changing to 3500k at night. Combining the two at 50% power will give you ~4500k like natural sunlight. If you really like the 5700k look, even two strips running at 100% 700mA will give you more than enough light.
That sounds like a good idea indeed but i am afraid i am going to "really like the 5700k look" as you said so 2 hotter strips sounds a bit much in that optic. 1 will be enough, but that means 4 LDD... decisions decisions ! Well done for having me doubting again
Too bad there isn't a colder version of thoses strips, that would have been gold !

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpringHalo View Post
A few DIY tips:
Make sure you're getting the wired version of the LDD modules. They're $1 more than the pin-style but better for your purposes.
Those power supplies don't come with power plugs so you'll have to make one from a PC power cable.
To eliminate most soldering you can use 3-terminal "wago lever nut" connectors to connect everything.
Great tip about the LDD, that would be the LDD-700HW then !
About the wiring, i got some braided cable sleeve and "superseal" connectors (rated for 14A so they should be ok)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
Good advice and an example of the "devil is in the details"

Err I mention it, wouldn't say vouch for it.. Mentioned it was available and same mod can be done probably.

Unless you buy an LDD board to plug the "pinned" LDD's in it is best to get the wired.. LDD-700HW.
IF You get a plug in driver board and do not use a controller you NEED one w/ the "usual" pull down resistor to be removable.
Otherwise they won't light..

https://www.rapidled.com/ldd-h-4-driver-board/
Only jumper-ed board I know of..
https://www.rapidled.com/ldd-h-4-driver-board/
Thoses board are not easily/cheaply available for me, so i'm going with the LDD-700HW
What is your input about SpringHalo's advice for going with 2x3500K + 2x5700K ?
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