Beamswork & TC420 ... Need some help - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #16 of 44 (permalink) Old 10-05-2017, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ipkiss View Post
I meant I wanted the ability to control green and red as well so I was hoping someone (cough *you* . mr. led lighting extraordinaire .. *cough ) had figured it out .. and speaking of which, where'd you get that fancy box that houses your tc420 again? I thought I read in some thread that some other member had made it. Any change he/she is making more?

thanks
you can't easily control colors that aren't already set up as "channels"..
https://youtu.be/V3EdwQmYyk0
This is the member who built the box.. Currently can't remeber his name her though..

Easier just to add RGB strips to the Beamswork and control those..
Cheap and done by some..
Though def. harder w/ the 5 row ones..

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post #17 of 44 (permalink) Old 10-05-2017, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
you can't easily control colors that aren't already set up as "channels"..
https://youtu.be/V3EdwQmYyk0
This is the member who built the box.. Currently can't remeber his name her though..

Easier just to add RGB strips to the Beamswork and control those..
Cheap and done by some..
Though def. harder w/ the 5 row ones..
Yeah, curses. Somehow I had the impression that it was easily done. Maybe was thinking of the finnex in your example. I was looking at the RGB strip idea too, but like you said, the rows are pretty tight and I'm not sure if I want to squeeze a strip in between. Furthermore, there seems to be some electronics randomly sprinkled in on the board that I don't want to tape over. Will have to look closer.


For the benefit of my newbie level of electronic dabbling, can you please expand on which PNP mosfet you're using? I noticed you wrote that we need one of correct voltage, but what does correct voltage mean?

Does the specs on something like this P-channel mosfet mean that anything less than the max is okay for it to function correctly in the scenario that you've provided?

https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/...l/FQP27P06.pdf

Absolute Maximum Ratings TC = 25C unless otherwise noted
Thermal Characteristics
Symbol Parameter FQP27P06 Units
VDSS Drain-Source Voltage -60 V
ID Drain Current - Continuous (TC = 25C) -27 A
- Continuous (TC = 100C) -19.1 A
IDM Drain Current - Pulsed (Note 1) -108 A
VGSS Gate-Source Voltage 25 V

thanks!


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post #18 of 44 (permalink) Old 10-05-2017, 07:19 PM
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I'd judge by the amount of current at my planned voltage @ DC rating..

Secondly, ideally (though apparently others are useable, though w/ possible gate complications i.e 10V gate getting 5v will not "open" fully" is my understanding of it)) usable is one w /a gate in the "logic" range.TC-430 outputs +5 V if one jumpers off the gate trace to the internal MOSFET.

Can't say I know any of this exactly since I usually just take my ideas to "gurus".. but that,s what I found out..

A tutorial on MOSFETS is fairly easy to understand..

Let's step back a minute.. What do you want to control exactly.
a MOSFET "inversion" is only needed for some fixtures not others..
It wouldn't have been needed for the Finnex if one just wanted to dim the entire fixture..

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Last edited by jeffkrol; 10-05-2017 at 08:06 PM. Reason: edit
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post #19 of 44 (permalink) Old 10-05-2017, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post

I'd judge by the amount of current at my planned voltage @ DC rating..

Secondly, ideally (though apparently others are useable, though w/ possible gate complications i.e 10V gate getting 5v will not "open" fully" is my understanding of it)) usable is one w /a gate in the "logic" range.TC-430 outputs +5 V if one jumpers off the gate trace to the internal MOSFET.

Can't say I know any of this exactly since I usually just take my ideas to "gurus".. but that,s what I found out..

A tutorial on MOSFETS is fairly easy to understand..

Let's step back a minute.. What do you want to control exactly.
a MOSFET "inversion" is only needed for some fixtures not others..
It wouldn't have been needed for the Finnex if one just wanted to dim the entire fixture..
No, I DO actually want to investigate the ability to dim the two separate "channels". I've also spent the last couple hours trying to get a crash course (again!) on the mosfets because I had already looked into this the first time around -- wondering if I was ready to commit to this type of brain twisting

So, after all this, and trying to understand what you wrote as well, I think I found this unit that might work..
https://www.fairchildsemi.com/datash...D/NDB6020P.pdf

At the risk of oversimplifying some math, given that I have a 24" DA-Spec that claims to have 60 x 0.5W leds, it draws 30W, so that means 2A at 15V.



So this one turns on at -4.5V, and 15V @ 2A is under the safe operating area..

Did I interpret that right? May I ask what unit did you use so that I may compare with that datasheet? I can't imagine that I need something that draws so much differently from what you did with the finnex as I'm not exactly building my own high draw led unit.


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post #20 of 44 (permalink) Old 10-05-2017, 10:11 PM
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since all you can possibly do is "all on" or "blue only" not sure its worth it but here goes..

First determine the polarity of the wire going to the switch:

https://electronics.stackexchange.co...aquarium-light

IF it's a negative wire then you are all set to go..Just run the "blue" wire to the TC-420 ch1
Other to Ch2.
Use the Beamswork PS to power the TC-420

IF positive then you would need to reverse the MOSFET..

going back to the orig.. then if you use the Beamswork power supply you need a PNP MOSFET w/ a useable gate voltage of 12V.
Problem can arise by having ALL the same voltages AFAICT..
SOOOO best to power the TC-420 w/ a 9 or 10V PS and just running the Beamswork PS through the Drain source pathway..



Need help on simple MOSFET circuit - Reef Central Online Community

Still learning..

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post #21 of 44 (permalink) Old 10-06-2017, 02:41 AM
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since all you can possibly do is "all on" or "blue only" not sure its worth it but here goes..
Indeed. I broke everything apart again and traced the circuits. Confirmed, it's all on or blue only. Can't even do blue independent during all on mode... Wondering if it's even worth it to stick with this light ...

In addition, I've confirmed that the switch is controlling the positive wire so reversing seems necessary.

Quote:
going back to the orig.. then if you use the Beamswork power supply you need a PNP MOSFET w/ a useable gate voltage of 12V.
Problem can arise by having ALL the same voltages AFAICT..
SOOOO best to power the TC-420 w/ a 9 or 10V PS and just running the Beamswork PS through the Drain source pathway..
Really now? Can't even use the same voltage? This makes it proportionately much more work. I thought I could've run everything from the same 15V power supply like in your first diagram ... How did you do it if your finnex has the same positive wire issue?

At this point, I should just ask you for all of your part numbers and exact light model so I can merely reproduce what you have ... jeez. *mutters in a corner* maybe I should've just bought that refurbished satellite plus pro instead and let my existing iaqua lite control it via the IR.

Well, whichever route I decide after I sleep on this a little, much thanks for your help.


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Last edited by ipkiss; 10-06-2017 at 01:10 PM. Reason: confirmed: positive wire switch
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post #22 of 44 (permalink) Old 10-06-2017, 01:24 PM
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Yea.. Don't really think that much work is necessary for so little reward (there are plenty of "moonlight" strips one could stick on)
https://youtu.be/0hlTKZcqB30

Sorry to be so vague but I was more of the "theoreticist" here Linn built it..

And over 1 yr ago. Checked my mail ect.. Can't find any definitive parts..

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post #23 of 44 (permalink) Old 10-06-2017, 01:40 PM
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Yea.. Don't really think that much work is necessary for so little reward (there are plenty of "moonlight" strips one could stick on)
https://youtu.be/0hlTKZcqB30

Sorry to be so vague but I was more of the "theoreticist" here Linn built it..

And over 1 yr ago. Checked my mail ect.. Can't find any definitive parts..
Yea, agree.

Serves me right for not looking into it more carefully. I thought people were merely just not doing the RGB dimming with the TC420 because they didn't want to get into the dirty bits... didn't know it was practically 'impossible'. I mean, I guess I could go cut the PCB traces and reestablish them how I want with a trace repair pen ( didn't know these things existed! ), but man, that's just getting out of hand.

It was a great mind exercise for any future projects I suppose. I thought about adding the RGB strips which I have (part of another theorized fixture using a klus triada housing), but I'm not sure if I want a fixture with so many wires running out of it as the control wires would have to be independent of what's going into it already.

As for parts, I dug through the thread you gave me at reefcentral and I believe Linn ultimately used a NTE2373 mosfet and a 200ohm resistor, but on a Finnex fixture.

Let this be a warning to all who see this later .. you practically CAN NOT independently dim the RGB leds on a DA-FSpec. The only thing you can usefully do is dim the entire fixture.


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post #24 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-24-2018, 03:14 PM
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Question Need more infos SVP

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
you wire the Beamswork power brick to the TC-420
Then wire the output from the TC-420 to the head..

If you don't want to wreck anything, just get matching plugs.
You said “Wire the Beamswork power brick to the TC-420
— If I use a matching plug extension, do you connect the power supply directly into the onboard TC-420 Power Input jack or I have to cut one side of the extension and plug it to the terminals (If so How do I know witch is positive from negative) ?

You said “Then wire the output from the TC-420 to the head” What do you mean here ?
— If I use a matching plug extension, do I cut one side of the extension, wired it to V+ & Channel 1 (Again, witch wire (with Beamswork) go on what)

Sorry to ask, I want to be sure ?

Also, Connecting trough the Timer port (4 pins) ideas...
With the Beamswork, I was thinking that it will be possible to easily control each channel passing by the timer port ?
My idea was to connect the Power Supply to the TC and find what wire in the timer port control each channel, from there?

My logic was:
If the timer can control independently the white light and the blue light (On the 6500k Beamswork - Don’t knowhow the timer work on the full spectrum Ramp) You should be able to control the light independently on the TC-420 — I was thinking to study the wiring (in the 4 pin Jack) buy a 4 pin extension, cut one side to connect the TC-420????

Not sure if my logic work?

Last edited by Chacapamac; 05-24-2018 at 03:17 PM. Reason: Nicer, clearer
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post #25 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-24-2018, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ipkiss View Post

Let this be a warning to all who see this later .. you practically CAN NOT independently dim the RGB leds on a DA-FSpec. The only thing you can usefully do is dim the entire fixture.
Good to know. Those that purchase such a fixture as these are just looking for decent PAR values to grow medium/med high light plants on a budget. These fixtures will do this well. I think I paid like $40 for a 24" DA FSPEC and it can grow pretty much any species I want in my somewhat shallow tank. I rarely go above 75% on my TC-420 for this light... and that's with a CO2 injected tank. You'll be hard pressed to find a better fixture as far as PAR per dollar is concerned.

If you want independent RGB dimming, you'll want to up your budget significantly, unless you are tech savvy and good with a soldering iron.
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post #26 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-24-2018, 03:54 PM
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1) Check polariy w/ a volt/ohm meter.."Usually" center is positive but NOT guaranteed.
2) Ease of controlling individual channels depends on how the orig light is designed. Some, like Finnex have negative as "common" tc-420 uses positive as common.
Makes building circuits more efficient NPN mosfet vs PNP mosfet.. LONG story.

Wouldn't bother w/ "splitting" the Beamswork. just do it normally.
It was done w/ the Finnex because you had 3 channels..R,B,W
Easier just to tack on a colored strip though that is somewhat problematic due to Beamswork/Strips voltage mismatch.
Beamsworks can be 15V (12V, 21v-ish are other options) strips run either 12/24V. There are work arounds..like taking advantage of voltage drop in power diodes..
still recommending just going from power brick to tc-420 to light head Skip messing w/ the timer plug.
Feel free to try to determine which "leg" (+ or -) the Beamswork uses as ground to the timer..just personally see little advantage to it here, then again moonlight isn't my thing and not enough blue to really do a lot of decent color shifting except to more yellow..

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post #27 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-24-2018, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
Beamsworks can be 15V (12V, 21v-ish are other options) strips run either 12/24V. There are work arounds..like taking advantage of voltage drop in power diodes..
still recommending just going from power brick to tc-420 to light head Skip messing w/ the timer plug.
Feel free to try to determine which "leg" (+ or -) the Beamswork uses as ground to the timer..just personally see little advantage to it here, then again moonlight isn't my thing and not enough blue to really do a lot of decent color shifting except to more yellow..
Agreed. One thing that I was concerned about was running my DA FSPEC off my 12V power supply, being as the powerbrick that came with the Beamswork was 15V/3A. I figured there would be "clipping" running it off lower voltage but nothing noticeable to me. Maybe my eyes have gotten worse with old age, I dunno. Maybe they overshoot the voltage on their bricks because it can't maintain a steady 12V from the voltage regulators they use?? Or maybe I'm not getting the full intensity from the lights. Either way, it works and my plants seem happy.
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post #28 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-24-2018, 04:32 PM
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Agreed. One thing that I was concerned about was running my DA FSPEC off my 12V power supply, being as the powerbrick that came with the Beamswork was 15V/3A. I figured there would be "clipping" running it off lower voltage but nothing noticeable to me. Maybe my eyes have gotten worse with old age, I dunno. Maybe they overshoot the voltage on their bricks because it can't maintain a steady 12V from the voltage regulators they use?? Or maybe I'm not getting the full intensity from the lights. Either way, it works and my plants seem happy.
Others that substituted 12v for the 15v reported light losses..
The reason they used 12v was to add strips to the Beamswork..


https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/10...ml#post6037626



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post #29 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-24-2018, 05:23 PM
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Yeah, I figured this much. Thanks for posting that link. I see you mention that most LED have ample headroom so I suppose I could run all of my fixtures off of a 15V PSU even though half of them run of 12V. I just don't need that kind of intensity for the depth of my tanks. I'm never over 75% on any of them as it is.

Apologies to OP for going off topic... as usual. lol
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post #30 of 44 (permalink) Old 05-24-2018, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by madcrafted View Post
Yeah, I figured this much. Thanks for posting that link. I see you mention that most LED have ample headroom so I suppose I could run all of my fixtures off of a 15V PSU even though half of them run of 12V. I just don't need that kind of intensity for the depth of my tanks. I'm never over 75% on any of them as it is.

Apologies to OP for going off topic... as usual. lol

Split the difference.. you can get Meanwell power supplies of 15V w/ "limited" voltage tweaking i.e +/- 10%..
most strips are bse on "automotive" standards where 14V from the alternator is not unreasonable..


Dropping a ps to 13.8 is a common ground.. and if necessary a small diode in series will cut each down .7V...

Graphic:



Quote:
The voltage dropped across a conducting, forward-biased diode is called the forward voltage. Forward voltage for a diode varies only slightly for changes in forward current and temperature, and is fixed by the chemical composition of the P-N junction. Silicon diodes have a forward voltage of approximately 0.7 volts.

2 in series(out to strips) and you "drop" 1.4V on the strip lines..AFAICT
LRS-350-15 is capable of 350W and down to 13.5V...
https://www.alliedelec.com/mean-well...0-15/70696564/
Can run lots of Beamsworks..
Does need to be tested.
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Last edited by jeffkrol; 05-24-2018 at 06:08 PM. Reason: edit
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