Help me decide on what type of creature to put in a tank I'm making.

[spoonmerlin]

Again thanks for all the advice everyone. I'm about 50% done making the tank from scratch. I'll post some pics soon. I still have not set on a creature theme for sure. I like the look of the dart frogs but the lack of any pet stores that sell them near by is a concern. There is a reptile "show" Sunday Dec 3rd at the Lake County fair grounds near me. I'm going to check that out to see if there are any breeders near by me.
I have found a couple places selling tree frogs but they all seem the same kind. I really want a couple levels of stuff.

Here are a couple questions?

I understand that when you have darts you should not have deep water. Does that mean more then 1" or no free standing water at all?
I want to have a water fall that will have at least 1 tier. I was thinking of a mini pond about ½" deep 5-6" above the main "pond" area. See sketch

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[patm]

The one thing no one has mentioned about the darts is, opposite of many species, they are in fact more difficult to care for in bigger tanks. Now, I dont think you'd have too much of a problem with bigger species like D. leucomelas, D. tinctorius, D. Azeureus (sp?), or D. auratus. But your smaller thumbnails would definately be out of the question in 50 gallons, although they wouldn't utilize the floor space anyways.

Also, I disagree with the previous comment about FBT being more active than PDF's. Again, your bigger, bolder species are constantly active during the day, and I would go out on a limb and say they're even more active than the toads.

-Pat

[spoonmerlin]

patm, Are your suggested frogs more low level or climbers. I want to get one of each if I can. Also they all seem to to family Dendrobates. If I was to get more then one type I thought they should be different familes. If so can someone recamend a complimt to the Dendrobates azureus as this looks like a pretty good one.

[dufus]

Originally Posted by Twistedream

One thing I think you might have over looked on your selection is Bombina Orientalis (Fire belly Toad, most lfs mix breeds) They are much more active then dart frogs, much easier to care for (within regards to locating suitable food and keeping your tank stable) and considerably cheaper then darts (on average darts run between 40-200+) FBT tend to run about 4 dollars apiece.

firebellies use absolutely no vertical space IME.
they're pretty much aquatic, spending much of there time in the water, and are not as active as dart frogs at all.
i have both.
the FBT's are impossible to keep fed, as they eat like a trash compacter.
they take Flightless fruit flies, crickets, mealies, etc.
i feed mine about 300 ff every week, and a dozen crickets a week, along with any house flies i may find(my iguana room attracts them).

re:price
FBT's ussually go for about 6-7$ a peice in lfs.
good begginer PDF's go for 20-60$, depending on age,species,breeder,and lineage.
Once you get used to cuturing fruitflies, (takes about 2 minutes every weekend) it's very easy to feed PDF's. they eat about 30 or so ff's a peice.

Originally Posted by patm

The one thing no one has mentioned about the darts is, opposite of many species, they are in fact more difficult to care for in bigger tanks. Now, I dont think you'd have too much of a problem with bigger species like D. leucomelas, D. tinctorius, D. Azeureus (sp?), or D. auratus. But your smaller thumbnails would definately be out of the question in 50 gallons, although they wouldn't utilize the floor space anyways.

-Pat

I've found this, through research, to be completely false.

bigger species do better in bigger tanks,yes.
but, it's been proven that thumbnails and Pumillio do VERY well in large inclosures, often being extremely bold.

Alot of people don't even use 10 gallon tanks anymore for thumbs because they feel the frogs are cramp'd.

the thing to remember about thumns and pdfs in general, is do your research.
you'll have to locate any big,medium, and small cracks and gaps and seal them or screen them off, for darts and ff's can get out of small openings.

If you look into it and get some good basic knowledge, a small group of begginer thumbs such as Imitators or ventramaculatus would be awesome.
One thing about dart frogs, they're fairly easy to breed, and most thumbs do most,if not all, of the work themselves.

imagine looking around in your tank, when all of a sudden, out of a bromeliad, a tiny froglet hops out into the open!

[patm]

I still disagree. As I said, your larger dendrobates would work fine. But even your main breeders in the hobby use mostly 15 or 20 gallon verts for breeding pairs or trios of most of your thumbs. A 50 gallon with a group of thumbs may be frustrating, especially for the beginner, because theres a good chance you dont see any of them unless you go with a pretty large group of frogs.

I paired imitators up in intermediately planted 10 verts, and rarely did I see them out in the open, or could I even see them at all. If you pumped that up to the scale of 50 gallons, good luck unless you have a huge group and maybe see one or two at a time. And I know frogs have different personalities, but when you're paying a minimum of $55 per thumbnail (exception be vents) I sure wanna see my investment and be able to make sure I know they're healthy and eating.

So sure, you give almost any animal more space and it's going to be happy, but you put reclusive frogs the size of dimes in a 50 gallon tank and you may never even see them.


But back to the main question, no, you don't want to mix and match species. It is best to stick with just one. In my experience, D. leucomelas uses a great deal of tankspace. They will use the ground as well as explore the mid sections of the tank if given the right background and plant cover. They're relatively bold, and mine are out constanly during the day hunting for flies.

-Pat

[DBenz]

They lifted the ban on baby turtles