seds' Limnophila forest! update October 31 '09

[seds]

THE DAWN OF TIME:
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...8/P1050637.jpg
REALLY LONG TIME AGO
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...8/P1050699.jpg
LONG TIME AGO
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...8/P1050742.jpg
BEFORE
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...8/P1050880.jpg
September 30:

Today:




-BRAND: Aqua-tech 10 gallon starter kit

-LIGHTING: 1x 40 watt 48 inch "gro lux" T12 light. I am a cheapskate so I didn't buy an official aquarium light. Each tube was only $6.67 and I found a fixture in the garage. Yes, this is a 4 foot fixture! It sticks out over 10 inches on either side. I have another tube but I don't want algae to take over right now.

-THE DIMENSIONS:
20'' Long x 10'' Deep x 12'' high


-SUBSTRATE: Play sand. I was going to use flourite but any plant substrate is almost impossible to find around here.

FERTILIZATION: Seachem root tabs + Seachem line on N P K and Fe. No Carbon yet. I'll see what I can do about that. Glass diffuser on the way.


-INHABITANTS: **1x white cloud minnows, 6x flame tetras, 4x ghost shrimp.

PLANT SPECIES:

*NEW* Chara sp.

Grew OK in my 35, but then someone convinced me to add a JACK DEMPSEY. I moved it all here. Grows at amoderate rate. Even grew in my largest tank's sump (albeit slowly) with a single 20 watt bulb. It is in the right side, in the foreground.

Elodea nuttallii + Elodea canadensis

I know there are 2 varieties but I don't know which is which. I have a hunch that the peculiar looking one is canadensis. If someone can help me tell which is what, that would be great. ELODEA CANADENSIS has been found in Alberta! By me! Right here in Fort McMurray. The potamogeton/elodea crash of October '09 killed off most of both. I might have lost nuttallii but we'll have to see. Some of the two species were growing similarily to each other. You can't see it in the full tank shot anymore because there are 4 or so shoots that are less than an inch long in the front corner.
Funky looking thing...
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...8/P1050593.jpg
Usually several feet under, this one. I got several bits. Both species have leaves of 3. New stems were pink when I had higher light.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...8/P1050636.jpg

Elodea "Bifoliata"

This species is difficult to find information on... It will constitute the MIDGROUND. Apparently it stays short. We'll see. Picked in BC, along with the other elodeas and najas.
This species was killed during a heatwave.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...8/P1050635.jpg

Najas flexilis

Found in abundance in Osoyoos. I couldn't resist grabbing a bit. It stayed under 30 cm where I saw it.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...8/P1050630.jpg
This species has disappeared

Callitriche verna

I found acres of this plant in a shallow pond. I grabbed a few bunches, when I went to plant them, I found out I have almost fifty stems. It is in the MIDGROUND and the BACKGROUND too. Seems to be fairly easy.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...8/P1050632.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...8/P1050417.jpg

Callitriche heterophylla

This plant looks way better from above, the nodes are very far apart. Seems even easier than C. verna! It eventually grows similarly to C. verna, but in the beginning it grows narrow leaves. Picked in my home town, along with C. verna.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...8/P1050633.jpg
C. Heterophylla in the wild

Fontinalis antipyretica

I found a stream full of this stuff so I took a rock home. Looks nice. Grown a lot, actually. I have removed a LOT chunks and experimented a few times. Original rock has since been removed.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...8/P1060042.jpg

Potamogeton (foliosis/pusillus)

Starting to grow, but I thinned it as it was mostly a tangled mass sitting on the substrate. Most of the original leaves have been removed.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...8/P1050723.jpg
This species was killed during the potamogeton crash of October -'09

Limnophilla sessiliflora

Whoops, this isn't native! I had to put it in here because tinfoil barbs found the hidden corner that I had it in. Background plant. Grows like a weed. IS WEED! I have a lot of it. Could it be an alternative fuel source? I could probably use it as either a biofuel or as tinfoil barb food. So far, I have been donating bunches to the LFS. The potamogeton crash didn't affect it. In fact, it prospered during the hard times.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...8/P1050999.jpg

Myriophyllum verticialatum

A abundant native plant that I had in another tank. I moved it here. Background plant. It was the first plant I had any real success with. Most of it melted during the heat wave, it is bouncing back. Hair algae on the leaves, almost died during the potamogeton crash of October '09.
[center]http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...8/P1050701.jpg

Egeria najas

I HAD a ton of this plant. It is cramped on the right side. (except the front corner) Grows well. Most of it is in my 35 gallon tank. I have donated a lot to the LFS. They managed to kill it all... But I still have some left.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...8/P1050921.jpg

[b]

**NEW PHOTO** Eleocharis acicularis

YESSS I finally have DWARF HAIRGRASS. Foreground plant. If it grows 6 inches like some sources tell me, I may replace the front half of my future mass with elatine triandra. Grows slow, has a bit of algae, but it is clumping up and sending the occasional runner.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...8/P1060090.jpg

Ultricularia Vulgaris

A carnivorous, fast growing, free floating stem plant. Looks a bit like milfoil from a distance. In the wild it had it's stems reaching 3-4 inches in diameter, but I never achieved more than 1.5 inches... Never grows roots, but seems to do fine with the end buried. My theory is that my tanks have too few micro organisms for it to get that big. It still grows fast without though. The oldest parts turn brown eventually, while the tip keeps growing.
This species was NOT killed but removed and placed in my 35 gallon tank. It grows like a weed there.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...8/P1050727.jpg

Stuckenia pectinata

Nice color, looks like potamogeton Foliosis after you cut it up. Otherwise, it looks like a brush or a rake... No good photos of it, but you can easily see it in the older FTS. It started to decline shortly after the potamogeton crash of October '09. Cause: unknown. It has endured better than other pondweeds.

Potamogeton Praelongis

Easiest, fastest acclimating potamogeton I have. 3 side shoots survived the Potamogeton crash of October '09. 2 of which have declined. I am still perplexed as to the cause of this mass extinction. It is a mysterious phenomenon of the unexplained!

Lemna Trisulca

Caught in potamogeton praelongis, this species is few and far between, 2 years ago I saw a lake full of piles of it. It is a sinking plant kind of like pelia. Most beautiful thing I had ever seen. When I found a few bits in a pond, I couldn't resist! It grows kind of fast but it is easy to remove because it grows attached to other specimens. Haven't removed any yet except to put it in my 35. Looks like a star spangled banner. I love this plant! Unaffected by the Potamogeton crash of October '09.

Potamogeton Alpinus

Grew pink leaves, acclimated fast. Seemed like the perfect plant... but then, disaster struck. Was it an annual? Was it deficiency? Was it too hot? I don't know.
This species was killed during the potamogeton crash of October '09. It was the first victim.

[seds]

Hey everybody, I went to the LFS today (closest day I could go) and after a lot of loitering I finally picked 8 flame tetras. All my plants are cool-water but I couldn't resist. They were 2 bucks each!



I also got a few ghost shrimp.

I am going to move my lone white cloud back to the goldfish tank, but the poor fellow has had enough torment for now. He can stay for a few days. I am not that concerned with ammonia because the plants will get it all. I hope.




If I put pictures of the tank in it's box, and all the equipment, plus the empty tank with substrate and rocks, would that draw more replies??

[rrrrramos]

So these are all native species? To be honest that's pretty cool. I'd love to have a tank like that, but there aren't any real good places in this part of Illinois to get stuff :p I'd like to see how all of this grows out!

[seds]

Originally Posted by rrrrramos

So these are all native species? To be honest that's pretty cool. I'd love to have a tank like that, but there aren't any real good places in this part of Illinois to get stuff :p I'd like to see how all of this grows out!

Well, technically the first 3 are native to B.C only. There is no elodea of any sort in alberta, but it is present in all directions from the border. Except maybe north. Kind of like rats being everywhere but here.

EDITS: whoops, apparently Elodea bifoliata is present in Alberta. But this source also claims it is absent in B.C. You can use this website to find out what is in Illinois. Like, for instance, Illinois Pondweed or something. It also says what in States the plants are endangered or protected.
E. Bifoliata
http://plants.usda.gov/java/nameSear...ordquery=ELBI2
E. canadensis
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=ELCA7
E. Nuttallii
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=ELNU2

Anyways, one of my Flame tetras didn't make it through the first night...

[seds]

WHILE EVERYONE WAS IGNORING MY THREAD, I added several new plant species:

-Eleocharis acicularis
-Limnophilla sessiliflora
-Egeria najas
-Myriophyllum verticallatum
-Ultricularia Vulgaris
-Potamogeton sp. (??)

I noticed some ich on a flame tetra. I turned up the heat today to 80 degrees (F) and I will turn it up a bit more to 88-89 ...later on.

If I keep it this hot for a few days, nothing bad will happen (I hope) how does one defeat ich in a planted tank with invertebrates?

SPEAKING OF WHICH, if you want to see my ghost shrimp on another page, I got a picture of it into the ghost shrimp profile.

All the plants really took off, especially Elatine triandra and elodea nuttalli (the funky looking one) and the bladderwort.

[hydrophyte]

Hey how about an updated full tank shot?

[Nate McFin]

Nice finds on the local plants! It will be interesting to see how they handle the heat. I cant help but wonder if the Tetras feel like they are on vaction. LOL
I agree about the full tank shot as well.

[seds]

Originally Posted by Nate McFin

Nice finds on the local plants! It will be interesting to see how they handle the heat. I cant help but wonder if the Tetras feel like they are on vaction. LOL
I agree about the full tank shot as well.

Yeah, I was a bit worried about the plants. I turned the heat to 89 degrees. now there is a ridiculous amount of bubbles on the milfoil and pondweed. I dunno what caused it, but I doubt a plant I added yesterday would be pearling already, especially a potamogeton species. (They die back like a crypt when disturbed)

I added pictures of U. vulgaris and E. najas to the main post... plus a FULL TANK SHOT due to "popular demand." I don't know if anyone will notice at first, but I switched the positions of elodea canadensis with the ambulia, and put all the callitriche sp. that didn't melt into a patch in the center. (to make room for egeria najas and pondweed) There are a few stragglers here and there, but I'll get to that later on.


UPDATE (SEPTEMBER 2, 2009!)

The two leaf elodea has melted completely. I took out a green strand or two to rescue it, but most of that has melted too. There are very few green leaves of this species left in my collection... We'll see if I can rescue the species from... EXPIRATION Elodea Nuttalli and Canadensis are doing poorly, but I have some living stems left. I turned the temperature down a bit. It will be by 79 tonight, (september 2) and in the morning I will turn it down to 24 celcius again.

The najas sp. has finally acclimated and is growing nicely. I don't think it minds the heat too much. Egeria najas has taken off like a rocket. Same for L. sessiliflora, but not as much.

UPDATE (SEPTEMBER 7, 2009)

The potamogeton "foliosis" has shown signs of growth, it didn't die back much at all. Two leaf elodea is gone for good. I added Potamogeton zosteriformis and another unidentified pondweed. The leaves are a bit large for the tank, but I am saving it for my 35 gallon. I removed 90% of the substrate to set this one up. I also only have 1 goldfish now. Once I start up this tank again, it will be great. Mineralized topsoil maybe?

[seds]

I updated the FULL TANK SHOT.

What has happened since september 7?

-Potamogeton foliosis was growing in a really ugly way, so I thinned it. I took off all the little side shoots and planted them in the ground, removed all the dead leaves (basically the original ones) It almost looks like it was removed, but it wasn't.

-Najas started growing but it has died back.

-Look at the first picture! I have an immense amount of moss compared to what I started with.

-Milfoil is almost none existent. 2 small stems remain.

-Elatine triandra is sewing seeds all over the tank. There are a few shoots in the willow moss. I keep pulling pieces out that get covered in algae... I guess that's why there is no carpet yet.

-The callitriche has grown exponentially, I have cut and replanted it a few times. I can't tell which species is which anymore, round leaves and narrow leaves are on the same plant.

-Some strange pondweed I found started growing, it has translucent bronze green leaves with well defined veins. The newest growth is pink! The leaves break very easily. Possibly POTEMOGETON ALPINUS

TOTALLY UN COLOR EDITED!!!



I am beginning to seriously consider CO2. The large amount of calcium and the death of milfoil, along with the lack of growth in dwarf hairgrass... it seems connected. Finding Tom Barr's referances towards the importance of CO2 has changed my mind.

Drop checkers... reactors... what does this all mean? I guess I'm going to find out!

I am starting to get collectoritis. I blame herbivores in my other 2 tanks.

I have a lot of Egeria najas. I decided to take it all out to see just how much I have:


500 ml of it, AKA 1/8th of a gallon of it. I switched it's position with Elodea nuttallii and E. canadensis, see HERE:


Elodea Nuttallii:


EDIT: Thursday, September 17.
Just did a major hack at Egeria najas and "sago pondweed." I tried to take a picture but it was cloudy. Noting worth seeing, except for my potamogetons up close:
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...8/P1050990.jpg
mind you, the picture is poor quality but you see what I mean. Sago pondweed looks a lot different when you cut off and plant all the sideshoots (which grow roots at the base)
Looks a lot like a bigger Potamogeton foliosus.

[demonbreedr16]

I REALLY like your tank!!

kENNY

[seds]

THANKS!

I'll update the FTS today.

DONE. Note how the right side is underwhelming. I don't like how it looks as a whole, but I like each species that is in it. Najas has bounced back and is looking good again. I forgot to take a picture of it though, I removed it before the FTS.

AFTER


BEFORE

Compare and contrast. Of course, the time of day is different, so Ambulia is closed in my TODAY picture. I cut the callitriche a little too. Milfoil has been moved to the front corner, so I could get sago pondweed planted better. There is a side shoot on one piece.

[paulrw]

cool tank man! i like how you used some local plants.i really dig the Egeria najas i believe? is that the "mossy" looking plant on the towel? maybe you could ad some hard scape to your tank to make it "pop" there must be some great rocks alberta you could find. a warning about dwarf hairgrass i have it in 2 tanks both high light ,co2 and ei. in the 2.5 it stays about 2.5 to 3" long in the 20g its easy 6" long and growing. all in all great tank eh!

[seds]

Originally Posted by paulrw

cool tank man! i like how you used some local plants.i really dig the Egeria najas i believe? is that the "mossy" looking plant on the towel? maybe you could ad some hard scape to your tank to make it "pop" there must be some great rocks alberta you could find. a warning about dwarf hairgrass i have it in 2 tanks both high light ,co2 and ei. in the 2.5 it stays about 2.5 to 3" long in the 20g its easy 6" long and growing. all in all great tank eh!

I was going to wait till tomorrow but...

Thanks for the reply! Egeria najas is indeed the "mossy" plant on the towel. If you look close, you can see a CANADIAN nickel in the middle, for scale. I updated the pictures and information of my plants, if you click the links.



As for hardscape, I have soaked a small branch but I couldn't think of a way to incorporate it into the hardscape. Once I get the potamogetons growing better, I'll wedge it in there and attach a bit of willow moss to it. As for rocks... I... can't find a place to put them. The moss is on a large flat round rock. It doesn't have a dynamic shape, and I wouldn't want to stand it up.



***URGENT NEWS REPORT***

Elodea nuttallii and canadensis were BOTH present in Alberta: a canal called the snye has incredible abundance of two species thought to not exist in Alberta. Did I get a photo? no, but I collected specimens. Among such specimens was POTAMOGETON PRAELONGIS, very similar to richardsonii in beauty. Only, it's leaves have lines along them and are broader, and at the top there is an interesting shape...

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...a%3DN%26um%3D1

[seds]

HELLO everybody (hi, doctor Nick!)

I have added a few things to my tank. Mainly, I have more dwarf hairgrass, I think it's acclimated. As for sago pondweed, I don't think it liked being trimmed. It stopped growing. I added lemna trisulca. I am not sure I like it. It is stuck in the Potamogeton praelongis' leaves. Potamogeton prealongis has started growing! At every node, (EVERY NODE) there is a new side shoot started.

I took some shots here!

In sunlight! I hate how yellow everything looks with my light on. I just finished scraping algae, so it's cloudy. In this case, I thought it improved the effect. PS, what is the rosette plant with a spoon-leaf in the lower right corner? IDK what it is! (it's native too...)


Callitriche 'narrow leaf.'


Elodea canadensis, fresh from the snye. I got a photo now. Looks funky. There is a tiny bit of new growth, and this time it is the same form as what it looked like when I picked it.


If anyone has any ideas on how to improve my scape, say. I really want some feedback!

I ORDERED A GLASS DIFFUSER ONLINE!!!! DIY CO2 here I come!

[demonbreedr16]

Tank is looking great!!! Do you still have those Von Rios? They are one of my favorites but without a huge tropical tank to put some in, I'm decided I'm going to do them again later...I still have 3 of 5 in my 10 though!

Kenny