Complexity Journal: 75g / NEW PICS Mar 26! Several pics posted with more to come!

[CL]

good. This thread was making me sad

[@marko@]

wow, great.
unfortunately, good things only happen in order for bad things to be able to happen (you cant lose something you dont have, so you get something, just to lose it later). everything ever born is doomed to die.
hopefully a lot later and not to the mystery disease though.

i dont know about pelvi-whatever, but bettas do great. they need LOTS of waterchanges (like 99% a day), or their growth stunts.

[Church]

YAAY!!!! It's always darkest before dawn, and it looks like the sun is coming up nice and bright now!!

[Complexity]

Thanks everyone! I was getting pretty sad about it all, but I knew things would turn around. I was mostly afraid that whatever was in my tank was indeed, "game over". That really scared me. But look how long it's been already, and that's without the sterilizer. So if I had something that was going to wipe out all my fish, I think I'd have more symptoms by now. I'm still worried, but greatly relieved that the sterilizer is inline now.

Ken, if enough fry survive, I'll be honored to send you a pair! I think you'll find these to be everything as great as the P. pulcher, but even better! The colors are amazing, and my female is so extremely red, she's truly crimson. Even now, she's still very colored up.

I'll try to post some pictures today. It's been busy these last few weeks because I've been driving my kids around a lot (they're taking driver's ed). It wouldn't be so bad if I was at my house, but it's a longer trip from my apartment. Today, I only have one trip to make, and then other than washing clothes and trying to clean up this place, my schedule is pretty open. So I hope to have time to get and process some pics for you all.

Marko, I've had bettas, and while they are very beautiful, I know they would not fair well in my tank with the Pelvi... um... Kribs. Since they're already killing the guppies by eating their tails, I can only imagine what they'd do with a betta. Plus, I'm pretty highly stocked as it is. My main goal now is to get everything stable, fish and plants. I still have some algae issues to tend to which have taken a back seat while I was working on the fish health issues.

The new fry has really lifted my spirits! Watching the parents care for the fry is the one thing I really wanted most of all. It's what I remembered the most from when I had tanks before and what I've been looking forward to this entire time that I've gotten back into having tanks. And now it's happened! And these fry are from an extremely good looking pair which appear to be excellent parents right from the start. They are the highlight of my entire tank!

[lauraleellbp]

The fry made it through the night OK?

[@marko@]

no, you didnt get what i meant.
laura said that fry dont like large water changes. i said that betta fry (since they are the only fry i had besides guppies, which are indestructable) NEED large water chagnes daily to keep growing well.
i wasnt suggesting putting a betta in there. either the pelvi...s would eat the tail and it would get fin rot, or they would eat its tail and the betta would stike back (bettas are slow, but persistant, i have had one kill a danio, and danios are fast).

[Complexity]

Oh, thanks for the clarification Marko! I understand what you meant now.

The fry are still doing great! In fact, as I type, I can see mom and dad taking the fry out for a swim. They're right in front of the tank so I can see them very easily. They are such incredible parents! NO ONE is allowed anywhere close to them. If anyone tries, one parent stays with the fry while the other is lightning fast at chasing the intruder away.

It's also interesting to watch them guard their fry. They are always looking all around. Many times, the mom and dad are facing opposite directions so they can watch all sides.

Is is this manner of parenting that has always fascinated me with the Pelvicachromis species. Their commitment to protecting their fry is how they are able to have fry survive even in a community tank.

I so much want to get a picture, but I don't want to disturb the parents. So it'll have to wait. Maybe I can get my camcorder; although it's so old, I have no idea how well it can pick up the fry. One way or another, I'll try to get something to show, but only when I can do it without stressing out the parents.

[CrimsonKeel]

Great thread. finally got through it all and find out you got FRY its great.

[lauraleellbp]

Originally Posted by @marko@

no, you didnt get what i meant.
laura said that fry dont like large water changes. i said that betta fry (since they are the only fry i had besides guppies, which are indestructable) NEED large water chagnes daily to keep growing well.
i wasnt suggesting putting a betta in there. either the pelvi...s would eat the tail and it would get fin rot, or they would eat its tail and the betta would stike back (bettas are slow, but persistant, i have had one kill a danio, and danios are fast).

Marko- I'm making a bit of a distinction between fry and juveniles.

I never made water changes at all while my betta fry were still fry. I only added small quantities of water to the tank every day. It wasn't till the fry were at least a week or two old, very active and off of infusioria that I would start doing water changes. I wouldn't do large water changes until they were at least a month old. After that, I agree- the more water changes the better.

So yes, IME fry are very sensitive to water changes. Especially very young/wigglers. Too much too soon can be a shock to them.

[Complexity]

It may not matter anymore. I have a feeling the fry's gone. I saw mom swimming around which is not right. She and the Moliwe female were sparring a bit while two of the males were around so it looks like the fry is gone and it's time to try again.

I'll double check tomorrow when I can get a better look, but usually when the female starts swimming around, the fry is gone; otherwise, she'd be with them.

[CL]

bummer Maybe next time

[Complexity]

It's okay. I can tell there will definitely be a next time. I need to work harder to offer more caves and hiding places. The tank is still too much in flux right now.

I'm also seeing that the Moliwe female is really coming into color so she's going to want to breed soon, too. It was interesting to watch the two females spar with each other. No one got hurt (I don't think they even touched each other), but I've never had a tank large enough for two females to see them behave this way. The Moliwe female used to not care, but she's definitely wanting to breed, and she's not being overly picky over which male she convinces to breed with her!

I may have to remove the Nigerian Red as the Moliwe female keeps teasing him while the Moliwe male kind of acts like he wouldn't mind a threesome! I definitely need to help these guys figure out who is with which female. I don't know which fish killed the Nigerian Red female, but the male needs to resolve himself to bachelorhood until I can get him a mate. Once I know the disease issue is cleared up, I will probably have to move the Nigerian Red to my 20L tank so he can quit messing up the courtship with the two Moliwes. They can and will interbreed if I'm not careful.

So my next step is to really work hard on getting a scape planned out with lots of caves, the more, the better. That will help the parents protect their next batch of fry.

[lauraleellbp]

Hey Vicki- check out the link to ACA 2008 I posted in the Fish forum... I think you'll appreciate some of the pics.

[Complexity]

Update! I still have fry!

The mom Kienke seems to be swimming around more, I think wanting food, but I just spotted the male guarding the fry. I think the numbers are less than from the beginning, but they're so hard to see, I can't tell for sure. When he saw me looking, he immediately started putting them in his mouth (that's how they protect the fry if they feel threatened). So he's being a very good dad.

All fish appear to be healthy at this point. I'm not seeing any more signs of problems; although, I'm still being very guarded. But at least I'm not seeing any spots or white stringy poop right now. I need to watch my BGR for the poop as she was the one who I saw with the white stringy poop the most.

I have discontinued the Melafix, but I am still feeding the natural anti-parasitic food at least once a day. They LOVE this food, and every single fish will eat it enthusiastically.

I'm having more and more algae problems, probably because I've screwed up in my fert dosing. I will do a water change (much needed) and begin dosing again. I think I'll also have to pull out the java ferns and mosses to treat them for BBA.

But the best news of the day is that the Kienke's still have some fry!

[Complexity]

Originally Posted by lauraleellbp

Hey Vicki- check out the link to ACA 2008 I posted in the Fish forum... I think you'll appreciate some of the pics.

I found it! Here's the link for anyone else who wants to see: http://www.tedsfishroom.com/wp/visit...a-2008-atlanta

I was shocked to read this part: "There were suprisingly few Pelvicachrmomis species, even though the winner of that class was an exceptional P. pulcher female." I'm not wanting to knock the beautiful female that won, but she's definitely not anywhere close to my females, most especially my Kienke. Maybe next year, I'll enter the contest!

I have to get a good picture of my Kienkes. I think they are so gorgeous, more beautiful than can be believed. The female is colored up much more than any Pelvicachromis I have ever seen. The owner of the LFS selected her especially for me along with her male mate who is also exceptional.

It's a shame the Pelvicachromis aren't more known in the aquarium community as they are definitely some of the most incredible fish available. Well, at least I think so!

Thanks for the link, LL. I very much enjoyed it!