230G Rimless Starphire AquaForest (56K!)

[gsd78]

This is gonna be a great setup! Subscribed.

Only thing I would advise against is glueing the Pentair modules together. I bought my Pantairs used and already glued together and really wish they weren't. I'd put unions between them all if it were my setup. Would make it much easier to pull one for maintenance or change the placement/order of them if needed.

As others have said I'm also worried about the pump. Going through that many modules and having that many returns in the tank you'll likely get almost no flow. Even with a pressure rated pump I'd think you'd need extra powerheads in the tank for proper water circulation.

[khoile]

Originally Posted by Raul-7

A good point was brought up regarding the mechanical and chemical modules being horizontal, won't that make it tedious to change the media without removing the entire module?

Nope, I don't need to remove the modules. The module has a cap at the end and all I need to do is unscrew it, then replace the pleat with an extra one. I plan to either put all these modules on a platform that can slide outward ~6 inch, so I can put a bucket under to catch any water. Or I could tilt them up slightly ~5 - 10 degree, to minimize drip.

The glass thickness is 3/4" (19mm) all around. Cost... let just say it took 2 years of saving. I started out only want to upgrade to 90G, then to 120G, then to 180G, and finally ended up with 230G.

[dekstr]

This is going to be a sick set-up! 230g alone makes me drool.

Then you add "rimless"?

AND THEN STARPHIRE GLASSS?

Wow that would be one of my dream tanks for sure.

I'm looking forward to updates and how you're going to set up this baby.

[phanizzle]

looking forward for some pictures!

[plantbrain]

I'd go with 2 in line systems and use the Ocean clear filters, they have plenty of options and are easier to service.

For heat:

You could do the fireplug, but I do not think they make them any more.
Hydor in line if you run a split and ran a smaller Tee of the line and used 2x300W would do the job.

Or, use the in line modules above.

I think you will be happier with the bio/chem and mechical of the Ocean Clear though.

Run two different lines in parallel.
Each running about 800-1000gph.

So use 4 OC modules and a heater set up.
One set of 2 will run the CO2 and the other the heat.
2 pumps etc.
Venturi CO2 loops.
You can also add the pressure gauges on the Oc filters.

Sumps are nice for many reasons at this size also.
Heater, CO2, surface skimming, but you have the skimmer column or the box in the tank. But if it's a box, you can easily remove it for a photo.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[scolley]

Khoile - WOW! I think that is brilliant! Great diagrams too!

This is definitely an improvement on what I'm doing, but I'd like to offer a few possible improvements before you build this puppy.

1) Move your drain solenoid to a spot downstream of you mech filters. That way you have no change of them getting gummed up with crap from the tank.

2) I LOVE the parallel flows, but I'd move one UV and one heater to each of the twp parallels. That way you can take one of the two paths down and still have heat and UV covered. That will, of course, mean a new bypass on the lower path.

3) Move your temp and ph probes before the two paths diverge, i.e, before the "T" to the mechs. That way if either path is taken out, you do not lose those two VERY critical functions. And obviously you can't move them to your retun manifold because your temp and pH won't reflect what's in the tank.

4) To Tom's point, you might consider replacing those horizontal Mechs and Chem with something that is not going to pour water everywhere when you open them up. The heaters and UV are not as important, as opening them is not too often. But the mechs and chem will have to be opened with some frequency, and it's gonna be a pita. IMO leave them where they are in the loop, just use vertical rather than horizontal canisters.

Other than that this looks GREAT!

IMO having a single pump is fine. Just make sure of two things...

1) You have plenty of unions on the mount so you can swap it out fast and easy if needed.

2) Use AT LEAST 1" diameter hose/PVC, if not 1 1/4" so you can maintain decent flow rates. You can go to Reef Central and use their flow calculator and see that you are not going to get squat for flow (even with that pump) if you choke it down to 3/4" tubing.

Good luck! This looks awesome!

[khoile]

Tom:

Thanks for the advice, I know I'll be happier with the OC, but I wanted to stay with one brand this time, so that it look consistent. That and I thought it would be easier to change to Pentair filter vs the OC. With the pentair, I just slide out the filter, put a bucket underneath, remove the cap and replace the filter.

Steve:

1) Move your drain solenoid to a spot downstream of you mech filters. That way you have no change of them getting gummed up with crap from the tank.

I wanted to have as much flow as I can, because I plan to water my garden (using the spinning sprinker thing). But having the solenoid fail due to gunk is worst. I'll make the modification.

2) I LOVE the parallel flows, but I'd move one UV and one heater to each of the twp parallels. That way you can take one of the two paths down and still have heat and UV covered. That will, of course, mean a new bypass on the lower path.

The reason I have them the way they are because I thought for UV to be most effective, contact time is the key. By having the UV in series I double the contact time. Heaters is probaly the same? I can heat the water more effectively if the heaters module are in series.

3) Move your temp and ph probes before the two paths diverge, i.e, before the "T" to the mechs. That way if either path is taken out, you do not lose those two VERY critical functions. And obviously you can't move them to your retun manifold because your temp and pH won't reflect what's in the tank.

I just afraid a plant piece or something can catch on the probe and cause it to give a false reading. Can any plant make it through the propeller in one piece?

4) To Tom's point, you might consider replacing those horizontal Mechs and Chem with something that is not going to pour water everywhere when you open them up. The heaters and UV are not as important, as opening them is not too often. But the mechs and chem will have to be opened with some frequency, and it's gonna be a pita. IMO leave them where they are in the loop, just use vertical rather than horizontal canisters.

As mentioned previously, I'll have these modules on a slideable platform, that way I could move them out (6" or so) and change the filter without wetting the stand.

I guess the issue is I'm not sure how easy it is to change the filter media on the OC. My stand is pretty short, I just afraid I don't have enough vertical space.

Thanks again for all the input.
Khoi.

[intermediate_noob]

Khoi, I do not mean to belabor the point more, but from what I read in the little research I did about the mechanical Pentair modules was that they required changing a lot, especially if there was a lot of mechanical filtration. Now these were cichlid tanks which get quite messy, but still.

I know someone mentioned it, but you might want to also take a look at Reefs.org's pump selection guide and their head loss calculator. This will give you a good idea of what you will be losing as you pass the water through all those modules. If you have not heard this enough, I would go for two pumps, just in case.

I think all this advice is being thrown at you because we are all SO jealous. For your stand, is it built already, or are you going to build it yourself? Thanks again for putting up with us and sharing this!

[Torpedobarb]

wow.. that is crazy nice! I can't wait to see real pics. take lots!

[fishman9809]

I love this journal, it is really an amazing idea!!!!!!!!!!

[crabcake]

what did you draw that with?

[khoile]

intermediate_noob:
No problem, I welcome all comments. Actually you guy are so helpful I've redesigned the plumbing to a better version. Yup I will plumb with an additional pump in mind, so if needed, I can just hook one up, no need to replumb. I've read some thread on the cichlid forum, and realized that the pentair mech modules require more frequent media change than OC, so my solution to the problem? add more problem! So I originally plan only 1 mech, now I have 2 I'll give pentair a chance, if they don't work well I'll just replace the mech/bio-chem block with OC units.

For pump headloss, I did use the calculator for both Sequence Snapper and Dart when I was researching pumps, here are my result:

Snapper:


Dart:


As you can see the dart has only a bit higher flow than the snapper, since I was targeting 5x tank volume (~1000gph) I thought the snapper with its lower wattage is a better buy. If I needed more flow I am better served buying 2x snapper rather than 1 dart. Atleast that was the plan.

I will be (well my dad will) building the stand. It's not built yet. You can see my plan in the diy thread here:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/di...nd-design.html

crabcake:
I did the drawing with Google Sketchup

[plantbrain]

The Oc filters are a snap to change, simply unscrew the top and no water spills.
You take out a 40 sq Ft 25 micron cartiage(this is more than enough for virtually any application), bleach for a day or so, rinse, dechlor and return(I'd suggest getting 2 sets of media, makes changing them easier).

OC's are easier than the plan you have.
The Volume of media for the bio and chem modules is pretty good also.

If OC or the Rainbow stuff does not do it for you, check out Aquaticeco.
They have larger systems with much better flow and pipe sizing.

As those pumps get larger, so does the sound/noise.

While some things might look neat, when you have to service them, you start dreading it.

Then you stop cleaning them etc.

Same deal with a Water change, make the set up easy for you to service.
Turn a valve to drain and back wash, turn another to refill and or backwash with clean tap.

I cannot drill through the wall or floor where I'm at.
So I use a little Giant sub pump to drain and fill by simply placing it in the tank to drain or in the bathroom to fill. Takes 7 minutes to drain and 8 to fill a 180 to 80% water change.

Imagine this with a bucket.

Some folks still think buckets are their only alternative and that hoses are not made longer than 20 ft

There are many options with filters when you start getting to these tank sizes. So the trade offs are very worth while over time.

You do not need to use hobby level equipment either.
You might be more familiar etc, but the end result is really the goal.

So learn now rather than the harder lesson later.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[khoile]

Tom,

Could you give me a link to Aquaticeco filter that have larger pipe size? I couldn't find any on their website, Aquaticeco.com.

I already bought all the pentair modules, so I guess I'll try them out first, but I'm convinced that OC is better now. I just have to make sure I design the plumbing so that I could swap in the OC if needed.

[khoile]

Here's some pictures of my 75G.. this is the best that it got to, all downhill after that, mainly due to 2 moves (all within a year), now it's just a java fern factory, not even a good one. I still do water changes frequently, so the fish stay happy.