Son of Kahuna (56K!)

[scolley]

Originally Posted by lauraleellbp

Just from what I've read (since I run only low tech tanks) 20-30ppm CO2 seems about average in high light tanks?

Thanks. I run 25+, that's why I'm asking. 20 is clearly enough for plant health. And with a venturi diffusing the CO2, with a controller turning the CO2 solenoid on/off, I can sustain ANY practical level... need 75 ppm? Can do, no problem.

The question is... how high does it need to be to be an effective algaecide?

[lauraleellbp]

Are you sure that it's really acting as an algaecide, or just helping the more efficient plants out-compete algae? (I think I've been reading too many Tom Barr threads... I've got CO2/photosynthesis limitation on the brain LOL)

I'd bump it up to 30ppm and see what happens, personally. That or permanently decrease the wattage (the last is really what I'd do- but that's my low-light bias coming through )

[BiscuitSlayer]

Originally Posted by scolley

Thanks. I run 25+, that's why I'm asking. 20 is clearly enough for plant health. And with a venturi diffusing the CO2, with a controller turning the CO2 solenoid on/off, I can sustain ANY practical level... need 75 ppm? Can do, no problem.

The question is... how high does it need to be to be an effective algaecide?

Ouch! I was hoping you were running less than 25 ppm. Obviously you don't have too much room to move here. If you did adjust, I wouldn't go any higher than 30 ppm, and that might be pushing it as it is.

Where is Tom when you need him?

[lauraleellbp]

Originally Posted by BiscuitSlayer

Where is Tom when you need him?

I dunno but he's overdue with planting pics for that gorgeous 180gal project of his...

I've been thinking some more about your pots/laterite ball issue... I bet you could make Laterite spikes instead of balls. That shape should be easier to push into a pot. Laterite isn't like Jobes fert spikes; from my research, Laterite shouldn't leach iron into the water, just be available to the plants through the roots.

[scolley]

Well, it was an interesting week. But not for any good reasons...

This week was the reduced Fe test. Six days ago I did close to a 90% water change to get any excess Fe out of the water. Then I resumed normal dosing except for two things. I eliminated my Fe dosing. And I reduced my Phosphate target from 2.0 ppm to about 1.4 ppm.


Thread algae
Just like I have demonstrated to myself on multiple occasions, this stuff is linked to phosphates in the 1.8 range (with fast moving water and high light). I didn't change the lights or water speed, yet it is almost gone. Definitely way diminished. Technically it could be the iron reduction. But I don't think so - seen it with the phosphate too many times.


Green algae on the sand
Experience with this tank has me skimming sand, chlorox'ing it, and putting it back, with the algae staying away for a month or two. Well this time I skimmed the top stuff off, and chlorox'ed it. But I didn't put it back. And now - wouldn't you know - it's starting to come back. I think it was a mistake to not put the cleaned sand back. I'll wager that this when I siphon off the top layer of sand some falls back. But when it's covered up soon with an inch of clean sand, it can't reproduce. But this time I didn't replace the sand, so it spread. Bummer.

Well, I can fix that pretty easily this weekend.


Green Dust Algae (GDA)
Boy! Is this stuff persistent. With no added iron for 6 days, it came on strong. I took pictures, but I'm too lazy to put them up. Trust me though, it got bad.

So not adding supplemental Fe did not matter. Maybe (if Travis is right) I've got to go the next step, and reduce micros. I'm using TMG, so it's got a reasonable iron content in it. So last week was far from iron free. But on the other hand, I'm not going to eliminate micros either.

But just because it seemed to work for Travis, I think I'll do another 90% water change, and reduce my micros by 75%. Not for more than a week - don't want to hurt the plants. But it will be an interesting test.



I'm getting sick of this GDA. The other stuff is just a nuisance. But the GDA is getting me down. Tank looks like crap half the time, and it takes work every week to scrape it off. A 180 is too big for that.

Bert H is doing is own test of Maracyn for GDA, to see if he sees the same thing I did. So I'm anxious to see his results. And if this next week of micro/Fe reduction doesn't make a clearly visible difference, I'm going to try Maracyn a third time. And if it works, I'll tinker with periodic small doses to see if that can keep it from returning.

And if it turn out that Maracyn DOESN'T make a difference... as conventional wisdom would indicate. Then I have to go pour over my noted to see what else I might have done that caused it to greatly diminish those two times I did the Maracyn dosing. There's an answer in there somewhere, if I can just tease it out...



PS - I'm running out of room for the discus to swim with all the stem plants growing. Soon I think I'll be able to demonstrate conclusively that having a tank full of healthy growing plants is not the solution to GDA. Sorry Buck. Sounded like a good idea though.

[original kuhli]

How are you cleaning your sand? Do you have any snails or critters that dig in it?

[scolley]

Originally Posted by original kuhli

How are you cleaning your sand?

Siphon out. Soak in Chlorox. Rinse. Pour back in.

Originally Posted by original kuhli

How are you cleaning your sand? Do you have any snails or critters that dig in it?

Nope. And definitely "Nope" after the Chlorox.

[khoile]

Hi Steve,

Can you remind me what peristaltic pump did you get? Also how much fert are you adding to your tank daily? I'm trying to size my peristaltic pump.

Thanks.
Khoi

[original kuhli]

A couple thoughts:

Is it possible that the Chlorox wash is breaking down the sand and encouraging significant amounts of silicate to leach into the water and causing your troubles?

Also, those critters(the bugs that aren't there) in the sand might help in getting some balance into the situation.

[scolley]

Originally Posted by original kuhli

A couple thoughts:

Is it possible that the Chlorox wash is breaking down the sand and encouraging significant amounts of silicate to leach into the water and causing your troubles?

Also, those critters(the bugs that aren't there) in the sand might help in getting some balance into the situation.

While both things you mention are possible, it's important to note that I've only cleaned the sand twice. And the first time was in response to the algae on it. So cleaning it did not start the problems. Not sure if it is making it worse though. But I suspect not.

Originally Posted by khoile

Hi Steve,

Can you remind me what peristaltic pump did you get? Also how much fert are you adding to your tank daily? I'm trying to size my peristaltic pump.

Thanks.
Khoi

Man, this is a topic I'm passionate about. I've got three types of fert pump; Aquamedics, Mityflex sold by AquaticEcoSystems.com, and a DP1-DT from AutomatedAquariums.com. The Aquamedic are all plastic and junk IMO. The Mityflex is much sturdier, but waaay to expensive and very noisy. But the little pumps from AutomatedAquariums.com are just right. And they come in a number of flow rates.

And FWIW, you can see on this page, these are virtually identical to some of the pumps advocated by other people here, just a bit more expensive. But I get them from AutomatedAquariums because they package them in these nice boxes.

IMO don't waste your time with variable flow pumps. You want to buy it according to the flow rate you need, install it, benchmark the flow after it is installed, and then you can always plan on that rate - adjusting timing as needed. Doing guesswork over speed on the variable flow pumps is nuts IMO.

As far as flow goes... I need about 3.5 ml/minute for my K2SO4 stock, but generally between 0.5 and 0.75 ml/minute works well for micros. For KNO3 and KH2PO4 solutions I think you are best off at around 1.0 ml/minute. All of these will have you dosing between 5 and 60 minutes a day... depending on your uptake rates. But they give you an nice granularity - easy to nudge the timing up or down a bit as needed. If you get something that flows too fast, you wind up with something that a 1 minute increase or decrease is too much or too little.

Also, be sure and not buy anything with 1/32" tubing connections. Too tough to adapt to airline hoses (which I use for long runs to the fert injection point).

[srud]

Originally Posted by scolley

While both things you mention are possible, it's important to note that I've only cleaned the sand twice. And the first time was in response to the algae on it. So cleaning it did not start the problems. Not sure if it is making it worse though. But I suspect not.



Man, this is a topic I'm passionate about. I've got three types of fert pump; Aquamedics, Mityflex sold by AquaticEcoSystems.com, and a DP1-DT from AutomatedAquariums.com. The Aquamedic are all plastic and junk IMO. The Mityflex is much sturdier, but waaay to expensive and very noisy. But the little pumps from AutomatedAquariums.com are just right. And they come in a number of flow rates.

And FWIW, you can see on this page, these are virtually identical to some of the pumps advocated by other people here, just a bit more expensive. But I get them from AutomatedAquariums because they package them in these nice boxes.

IMO don't waste your time with variable flow pumps. You want to buy it according to the flow rate you need, install it, benchmark the flow after it is installed, and then you can always plan on that rate - adjusting timing as needed. Doing guesswork over speed on the variable flow pumps is nuts IMO.

As far as flow goes... I need about 3.5 ml/minute for my K2SO4 stock, but generally between 0.5 and 0.75 ml/minute works well for micros. For KNO3 and KH2PO4 solutions I think you are best off at around 1.0 ml/minute. All of these will have you dosing between 5 and 60 minutes a day... depending on your uptake rates. But they give you an nice granularity - easy to nudge the timing up or down a bit as needed. If you get something that flows too fast, you wind up with something that a 1 minute increase or decrease is too much or too little.

Also, be sure and not buy anything with 1/32" tubing connections. Too tough to adapt to airline hoses (which I use for long runs to the fert injection point).

Thanks Steve! So are you dosing N, P, K and Micros all seperately now? Reading back in this thread it appeared that you were dosing just Macros (I assumed in one solution) and Micros, so only two Peristaltic pumps required.

[travis]

Steve, I'm curious about the psi needed to inject ferts into your pressurized return line. Do the peristaltic pumps provide all the pressure necessary?

[scolley]

Originally Posted by srud

Reading back in this thread it appeared that you were dosing just Macros (I assumed in one solution) and Micros, so only two Peristaltic pumps required.

Actually this is a bit of unfinished business in my stand. I listed the flowrates previously because khoile is building an awesome high-tech tank and needed estimates. But indeed, I only have two pumps hooked up at the moment. One for micros, one for Potassium stock. When I first set the tank up, that should have been all I needed. That was under the assumption that my lightly planted anubias and moss would survive on the levels or Nitrates and Phoshpate in my tap water - it's high. But with all the plants I have now, they are ripping through stuff pretty quickly so I'm having to dose those two manually.

Granted, having all these stem plants was supposed to be just a temporary algae fighting tactic. But this is taking so long, I'm sick of dosing, and am going to hook up some more pumps. Good catch!

Originally Posted by travis

Steve, I'm curious about the psi needed to inject ferts into your pressurized return line. Do the peristaltic pumps provide all the pressure necessary?

Great question! The line I'm injecting to is currently running a pressure of 6 PSI. I know that from the gauge on my OC filter. And where my fert lines (air line hose) connects to the PVC of my filter lines are some of Rex Grigg's lovely little brass check valves. I got him to sell them to me with a barb on one end (for the airline) and a 10-32 threaded male connection on the other end, so I can screw it into my plumbing for a nice secure connection. Would hate to drain the tank because of an airline popping off.

Anyway... those little brass check valves require a good bit of pressure to get them to open. I don't know how much, but trying to blow through one makes my face turn purple. They require a good bit of pressure. So between the pressure to open the check valve, and the 5+ (as high as 10) psi in my lines, the fert pumps have to overcome a lot of pressure.

I was worried about that myself when I first set up the tank. So I filled one fert jug just with water and timed how long it took to pump a measured dose of water - you know, like 20 hours to pump a liter or something. I don't recall the math or the exact timing, but the bottom line was it was that it pumped at exactly the same rate as my benchmark that I had timed the pump at when it was not hooked up to the water lines.

I was pretty impressed. I guess the technology behind peristaltic pumps is pretty accurate and tough.

Long answer to a short question. Sorry I should have just said...

"Yes"

[Buck]

Originally Posted by scolley

PS - I'm running out of room for the discus to swim with all the stem plants growing. Soon I think I'll be able to demonstrate conclusively that having a tank full of healthy growing plants is not the solution to GDA. Sorry Buck. Sounded like a good idea though.

Steve if that aint gettin't done then I would tend to assume that you are way overdosing the micro's.
I was running into an algae fest like you are when I upped my micro dosing. In its place now I do smaller , more frequent water changes (maybe 10%) and it seems to be helping. I only do a 50% w/c every third week. I dose a minimal amount of micro's only if I am too busy to do the water change. I have been micro free for 3 weeks now and the plants havent suffered, only the algae. Im hoping this is a good trend for my tank.

Have you tried cutting way back on the micro's?

[Pyt]

Originally Posted by scolley

I was worried about that myself when I first set up the tank. So I filled one fert jug just with water and timed how long it took to pump a measured dose of water - you know, like 20 hours to pump a liter or something. I don't recall the math or the exact timing, but the bottom line was it was that it pumped at exactly the same rate as my benchmark that I had timed the pump at when it was not hooked up to the water lines.

I was pretty impressed. I guess the technology behind peristaltic pumps is pretty accurate and tough.

Long answer to a short question. Sorry I should have just said...

"Yes"

Thanks Steve

This was just what I needed to hear.

I am researching automated fert injection, and I have a lot of static pressure to overcome, due to my tank being quite high above the floor.

Btw, did you test all you peristaltic pumps, or just the ones you are using from AutomatedAquariums.com?
We fellows from “the other side” might not be able to get the same stuff that all of you are using

/Jens