Son of Kahuna (56K!)

[dufus]

Hmm, you really shouldn't have ammonia problems in an established system.
Do you have enough biological media in there, that's one thing you may consider before taking out fish.

although it seems pretty suspicous to me that both these problems would happen at the same time.
I would investigate for a relation between them, maybe the TMG is lacking in something the ADA wasn't, and the plants are in a small shock and not taking up as mouch Ammonia?

[scolley]

Thanks Devin. But I need to correct that last post. It was not 0.7ppm ammonia, it was 0.07! Sorry. That was an important decimal!

So, with that in perspective, you can see that I don't have a BAD problem. It's just that I do have some measurable ammonia. Not much, but it's there.

With an established tank, an Eheim Pro II and an Aquaclear filter, I should have an abundance of biological filtration. I think it's just a matter of fish load vs. plant load, with water changes that could be more frequent. Currently I'm an an equivalent of 50% every three days. Yes, many planted discus keepers do more lie 50% every week, but I'm not heavily planted, and I've got 8 adult discus.


As for the annubias, I just cleaned the tank and found more. Almost every one was a newer leaf, with not much GSA (an indicator of good growth rate), no yellowing or distortion, pin holes,... what ever. Healthy leaves, with firm stems EXCEPT for the fact that the base of the stem was soft where it had been connected to the rhizome. And the one exception was a mature leaf that was dark green, and it had separated from the stem.

It's curious.

[dufus]

Possibly a disease?
I've never heard of it before, the only time i've had anubias drop leaves is when my african cichlids pull them off.

Seems to me like this plant does best with neglect, surje's anubias were having some yellowing problems a while back, with all his high tech stuff too.

[scolley]

Originally Posted by dufus

Possibly a disease?

Or Amano shrimp. They are supposed to be responsible for damage to plants when there's not enough algae to eat. I've got algae, but it's GDA on the walls - Amanos don't eat that. And GSA on the anubias leaves - Amanos don't eat that.

But no other algae to speak of. Maybe they're hungry.

And I know ADA recommends dumping a bunch of Amanos into new tanks, but once the algae is under control in a few weeks, pulling them out so they don't damage the plants. This could be my problem.

[dufus]

Maybe add a small predator to eat off some of them, then take it out after a week or two.

IME, catching amanos was like catching very intelligent spiders in a rock pile.

[Jens]

Is the rhizome soft? Some of my anubias plants disintegrate in a bare bottom tank running with low light. But the leaf stem and rhizome are soft in this case.

[bastalker]

Steve....Your tank is lookin bad! Really really bad! It just looks sick!

In other words...Awsome job my friend!

When you comin to this part a town? Love ta have ya over for a beer or two anyways!

tc
Mark

[styxx]

Originally Posted by scolley

Thanks BiscuitSlayer! No cloaking required... my wife doesn't want any thing to do with it. That's a good thing.


Anubias leaf shedding
For a while now my anubias have periodically shed leaves. It's always new, or young leaves - so there's something going on.

For the record, I switched from ADA Green Brighty Step 2 to Tropica Master Grow this week. I'm dealing with that topic in this thread. But this problem has been going on for months. A couple of days ago though, I lost 4 leaves in 1 day. Now it's got my attention.

I've tried to research this, and can't find anything conclusive. My plants otherwise seem fine. NOT explosively growing, but growing. I'm running less than 2wpg, so explosive growth isn't the plan. Just steady growth, and I'm getting that - large handfuls of plant matter being trimmed back and removed every weekend. But I'm concerned about this anubias leaf-drop.

Anyone know what this is?

I'm betting it's a micro deficiency of some form. And I may boost them by 50% to see if that helps. And I'm hoping it's not a magnesium or calcium issue, as those are the two things that I have to dose manually - calcium chloride and magnesium sulfate that is.

Any help or insight into this problem is much appreciated.

Well I have read your thoughts on this so far and as an ADA devotee I have to say that I usually don't have problems with Anubias except for yellowing which I typically solve with a few drops of ADA ECA (its like super concentrated Iron) and that fixes things quickly. Maybe you could try that and see what happens...imho Anubias have problems with Iron deficiency even in ADA substrate which usually requires an additional source of Iron...just a thought.

[scolley]

Originally Posted by dufus

Maybe add a small predator to eat off some of them, then take it out after a week or two.

Naaaa. I don't want to kill them. I just want to know if they are attacking my anubias. I'd rather have periodic anubias leaf loss than algae. And while I can't give my amanos all the credit for low algae, I'm sure they are pulling their load!

Originally Posted by Jens

Is the rhizome soft? Some of my anubias plants disintegrate in a bare bottom tank running with low light. But the leaf stem and rhizome are soft in this case.

Good question. Thanks. But no. The rhizome, leaf, and stem are ALL rigid. In fact, the spot that breaks is not soft. Hmmmm.......

As I was tying this - specifically the word "breaks" - it got me thinking. Maybe I DON'T have a deficiency! Especially since the spot where they separate is pretty rigid too.... Maybe I just have some big freaking fish, blasting around my tank and knocking off a leaf every now and then!

Hmmm.... the plot thickens.

Originally Posted by bastalker

When you comin to this part a town? Love ta have ya over for a beer or two anyways!

Thanks Mark! Two sounds good. Let's make that happen. I'd get a kick out of that! And thanks for the kind words.

Originally Posted by styxx

Well I have read your thoughts on this so far and as an ADA devotee I have to say that I usually don't have problems with Anubias except for yellowing which I typically solve with a few drops of ADA ECA (its like super concentrated Iron) and that fixes things quickly. Maybe you could try that and see what happens...imho Anubias have problems with Iron deficiency even in ADA substrate which usually requires an additional source of Iron...just a thought.

Good points. But these are not yellowing. And more important, they are not in ANY substrate, ADA or otherwise. They are on driftwood, getting all their nutrients out of the water column.

And I've got ECA, but I stopped using it once I switched from Green Brighty Step 1 to Step 2. As I understand it the only difference is that Step 2 has Iron, where step 1 does not.

BUT, just because my micros (Step 2) included iron, that doesn't mean they had enough. Granted. But they were showing no signs of iron deficiency. So I'm not sure more iron is my answer. Thanks though.

[shyvpboi]

Awesome tank Steve!! I was wondering since you said all of your plants are attached to the driftwood except the swords. How are your lotus planted? are they potted like your swords?

[scolley]

Originally Posted by shyvpboi

Awesome tank Steve!! I was wondering since you said all of your plants are attached to the driftwood except the swords. How are your lotus planted? are they potted like your swords?

Welcome to PT shyvpboi!

You caught me! I wasn't trying to hide anything though, but your question made me realize that I've said some things incorrectly! I hate that.

So apologies for not being accurate...

My lotus are the exception to the rule - not in pots, and not on driftwood. I tried nestling them in the sand and they seemed to be THRILLED with it.

I'm not against substrate. But I definitely wanted a heavy sand surface so I could have an area for the discus to nibble from - an bottom that wouldn't harbor food to rot. So sand was the choice. I was ready to put the lotus in pots if I had to. But from my childhood I remember various lotus like plants rooting very well in the sand creeks I played in on the gulf coast, so I decided to give it a try. And as it turns out, they are quite happy in the sand.

Sorry I omitted that little tidbit.

[A Hill]

The tank looks great Steve!

But where are all them pictures

I think loosing a leaf here and there with your fish should be expected, anubis leaves are easy to break off...

-Andrew

[scolley]

Originally Posted by Fish Newb

But where are all them pictures

Thanks Andrew. Maybe you missed the pics in post #190?

I don't have time for more now... the Anubias have stopped shedding leaves. So since I cranked up the micro's that that was the problem. But BEFORE I cranked up the micros, I did a big lotus trim for the pics in the post 190. Immediately afterward the GSA started REALLY attacking the anubias. So I've got all my leaves, but they are now COVERED in GSA. It's bad.

So I've got to continue to work this problem, and I KNOW... crank up the phosphates. But I've got so little other algae that I'm loath to do that. Instead I'm going to experiment with some more crypts, and see how they like sand. And even maybe tie a few to driftwood - just to see what happens. Because my other crypts are really healthy. But then, they are in pots in AS. But I want to try them out - just to see if they might replace the anubias. That GSA is making me nuts!

[A Hill]

I found them before I posted, but like you always say. Your PHOTO journals always become loooong threads full of more words than photos, but who cares it looks great.

Have you left it for a good 2 weeks or anything like that yet?

-Andrew

[shyvpboi]

thanks for the great info about the lotus Steve!