My Planted Discus Tank … Index on 1st post of page 1 (56K!)

[jt20194]

Thought that I would add the latest pictures of the discus tank. I’ll be adding some wild discus in the future.

The tank as of Nov 11h
















I know that I said I was going to describe the setup. I will since I think there are some interesting elements that include all functions being monitored or controlled by a PC program that integrates with the tank’s AquaController. CO2 and water changes are programmed as well. Also, I use a sump which some would argue are better suited for marine tanks. The one area that I left manual is dosing… for that I use a Kent 2-1/2 Gal AquaDose. It is a work in progress and I wish I had done more research before actually setting up the aquarium. Substrate would have been a big change. I’ll try and put together the description with pictures since I have enjoyed those posts that offered other’s experiences. I welcome any constructive criticism after I post my approach.

[scolley]

Good start on a tank. But you are just teasing us with the info on the physical setup. Please do post it.

But even more important, please post your light/water params/feeding/fert schedule. It looks like you've got some algae there that needs some attention, and without knowing what's going on it the tank it's a bit tough to comment.

[Subotaj]

nice tank,
more plants will be great here.

[jt20194]

Originally Posted by scolley

Good start on a tank. But you are just teasing us with the info on the physical setup. Please do post it.

Scolley... not pretty but here are the initial pics and a diagram of my system. Will add text later

Filter and water change system - actual photos below...


Light Program


HCA Application


Left side of stand shows MegaFlow and CO2 and float switch


Right side - XP3 and Gamma 40W UV sterilizer


KH at 2 and pH at 6.54 puts CO2 at ~20 milligrams/liter


Dupla Thermik Set 60W on 24hours for up to 95gal


Fert dosing


RO/DI with pre filter and solenoid water valve connected to the float switch


Water drain solenoid works with X10 controller

[scolley]

Woooo Hooo! Hey! That's hot stuff!

I know hi-tech get's a bad name from all the people wearing the "KISS" buttons. But I know that mine is complicated as heck, and it WORKS. I say that only to say that I know that you have been at this game for a little while, and it warms the cockles of my heart to see that you have come to the same conclusion... if it can be done reasonably reliably, don't be afraid!

That is a way cool setup!

So now the inevitable questions...

1) What is that light control software? And what advantages does it bring over the typical controlled time period? Or over the less common, but still widely in use controls that mimic a the photo period of a specific latitude/longitude?

2) What kind of CO2 swing do you get with your Aquacontroller?

3) Is that Kent fert jug on a drip? And if so, what ferts are you dripping?

4) How's the noise from that overflow/sump arrangement? I'm relatively new to the hobby, and immediately dived right into the massively in-line challenge; heat, temp probe, pH probe, and in tank level sensing. It's a real PITA, and naturally it can all be replaced with a good overflow/sump. Hence the question...

Fantastic setup though! Thanks for sharing that!



PS - I want an Aquacontroller so bad I could puke. I'm about 2 seconds from pushing the "BUY" button to get one. But the only thing that holds me back is the knowledge that by swtiching to that from my current X10 controller, and X10 control panels, means that I have to give up the ability to walk in at any moment, and turn on, or off, any component I wish. Anything you can do to get me beyond that concern would be MUCH appreciated.

PPS - That said, Aquacontrollers are inherently superior to X10 controllers because they send out redundant on/off signals at 5 minute intervals. Most X10 controllers only send a signal when the on/off state is supposed to change. That's fine most of the time. But if you lose ppwer for a while, things can get screwed up fast.

[mr.sandman]

Whoa thats awsome with the Capital "A" and complicated too. You must of spent a lot of time on this

[jt20194]

Steve:

1) Light Control Software is part of the Home Control Assistant (HCA) Pro V6.3. The screen shot after the light program shows the default interface. I find it to be much more refined and robust for X10 than anything else I have seen. Here is a link to their web site... Home Control Assistant . The advantage could be user preference but I like that I can create schedules that launch either X10 programs or devices. Of course the schedule can be based on sunrise times for your location. My Tek T5 6 bulb fixture has 2 separate ballast that turn on either the 2 outside bulbs or 4 inside bulbs.
Although, the AquaController has the ability to control the lights via X10, I chose not to use it but instead use HCA since it provides much more control in programming the devices. HCA allowed me to define a start schedule that launches the light program. The light program does everything else and can be easily modified until I get it right! My approach was to start the light program 30 minutes after sunrise. I start first with the Office lights that are also X10 enabled to acclimate the fish for 5 minutes. I normally close the blinds in the office at night so the sunlight doesn’t offer much help in the morning. I than turn on the outside bulbs (Giesemann Midday 6K full spectrum and a Giesemann Aquablue Plus 11K full spectrum fluorescent that has 60% Actinic and 40% White spectrum) for 3 hours. These I call the Sunrise and Sunset Lights in the program. Next the “Midday Lights” turn on (4 inside bulbs again a mix of 6K and 11K) and the Sunrise Sunset Lights turn off. I leave those on for 2 hours. I think you get the idea. Look at the screen shot to follow the rest of the schedule. This type of control is just easier to implement with HCA.

2) What kind of CO2 swing do you get with your Aquacontroller? Like you said the AquaController is the only X10 controller that eliminates X10 errors like collisions etc by repeating the X10 commands every five minutes for a current state of a device. Great way of managing less than perfect devices that may miss a command. Since CO2 is not needed during the night, I have an HCA program that looks at the Light Flag set by the Light Program to determine if the CO2 should be turned off. This program is triggered by the CO2 X10 device House and Unit code that the AquaController uses to turn on the CO2 solenoid. The cool thing about the flag is that I can delay when it gets set after my lights turn off. Once the AquaController sends the on command HCA sees it and launches the Night CO2 program that checks the Light Flag and if the lights are off waits 5 seconds and turns off the CO2 solenoid.

Now to answer your question. During the day, based on my KH I try and keep my pH at 6.5 or so. The AquaController turns on the CO2 and does a great job of keeping it within .04 of that pH. During the night it gradually goes up to about 6.8 or 6.9. The fish have no problems with this. Once the lights are back on it takes about 2 hours to get the pH down to 6.5.

3) Kent AquaDose is on a drip that depletes the tank (2 ½ gals) in two days. I am using Kent Freshwater Plant formula and Kent ProPlant mixed together based on their high end dosage recommendation. Since I do water changes of 20 gals every other day, I set the drip system to supply the ferts in that cycle. I have an Excel spreadsheet that I use to determine both the light requirements and the number of seconds between drops based on how long I want to drip – 1 day 2 days etc. To be candid, I have not taken the time to work out this element of the regime the way I should have. I have yet to even get any test kits. I am about to push the bottom on LaMotte test kits. What would you recommend on test kits?

4) Quiet!!! The sump part is very quiet but the reservoir was noisy until I added an overflow in it. When my cover is on the stand I really don’t hear the filters or water flow.

In so far as getting an AquaController, your concern about control should not be an issue. Remember, you can choose what the AquaController does or does not control. It’s great for the pH, temperature and ORP. It has a great interface to your PC that enables you to set the parameters over the PC. I chose not to use it for the lights, water change or the UV. Since you can define the X10 House and Unit codes you want the AqauController to use for the devices you want it to control; you can monitor the devices on your PC. In my case, I have a dedicated PC running the HCA X10 application and AquaNotes for the AqauController. I would highly recommend the AquaController, you will love it! I have two UPSs to deal with power losses

MR.SANDMAN:

I remember when I first started flying; it seemed that the instrument panel was so complicated, after awhile it becomes second nature… If you look at the setup awhile it will seem less complicated than when you first look at it.

[scolley]

Originally Posted by jt20194

I remember when I first started flying; it seemed that the instrument panel was so complicated, after awhile it becomes second nature…

Perfect analogy. I know people look under my stand, and their jaws slack and eyes glaze over, and saw something about it being way too confusing. Nope, just like that instrument panel, it's pretty daunting the first time you look at it. But soon you know where everything is, what it does, and what it looks like when something is wrong. Not confusing at all.

As for the Lamotte, I've only got one Lamotte - the Alkalinity kit, 4491-DR, for measuring KH. That is because having a good read is half the equation to knowing your CO2 ppm. I LOVE the kit because it is wicked precise, with unambiguous results. But the markings on the glassware that came with it were off (I have a thread on that - search for Lamotte), so the kit by itself would have been precise, but precisely wrong. But that we easily overcome by supplementing the kit with one of my accurately marked dosing syringes. Now I KNOW what my KH is, and subsequently, my CO2 ppm.

Thanks for the great reply. HCA looks like a powerful tool. I'm happy with the current generation of X10 software/hardware I'm using. But the lack of the "5 minutes status refresh" feature that Aquacontrollers have really gets my goat. I'm thrilled to hear you get such precision with it's pH control. But I really wish there was a single solution that would cover everything - reliably. Even now,I don't have my dosers on X10. Too much room for tragedy. I would confidently move everything to an Aquacontroller, but then I lose the ability to turn some things on/off as I please.

Like your solution, there appears to be no single technology that can provide the appropriate levels of automation, flexible control, and dependability. But that is impressive job of pulling all the pieces together to work as a cohesive solution.

I'm gonna go give a harder ponder to that Aquacontroller! Thanks.

[jt20194]

Steve:

I really didn’t answer the sump question quite the way you asked. Hence this post. This is the first sump I have used and I have to say that I would never go back. It provides a number of options that make it much easier to manage your aquarium. In my case I added the float switch which enables me to automate my water changes as well as ensure that evaporation does not lower my water levels. Although, since I have started doing water changes every other day, I doubt that evaporation is an issue. Further, it provides an interesting area that various critters seem to end up in. Since I have been monitoring the sump, I have found one baby tetra swimming in the sump, a species of some kind of small dragonfly which I later saw flying around my office, snails and some sort of minute white water bug that is smaller than a flea and jumps around like a flea. It’s like having a whole new area to explore that your fish don’t get bend out of shape with you when you have a flashlight probing the thing. All joking aside - I love the sump and its biofilter functionality, the ability to place everything in it and the ease by which I can prime my canister filter by just turning on my sump pump. GO for it, it makes things easier to manage.

[scolley]

Thanks. There are number of very good threads here dealing with sumps vs. in-line. Having a sump could greatly simplify many things. It's clear how it does for you. I'll definitely be giving them a hard look if/when I set up a new tank.

Thanks for sharing the insight. And the unexpected pleasures (finding the visitors!) Very cool.

[jt20194]

Some close ups of the flowers on the surface...

[TheXman]

I notice that you added some cardinals to the mix. Do they school with the neons? I am hoping to get some cardinals in the future, but because of their initial sesitivity, I was thinking that if I got a small school of neons established first, the cardinals might school with the neons and might do better if they had this already established school to join. What do you think?

[jt20194]

Originally Posted by TheXman

I notice that you added some cardinals to the mix. Do they school with the neons? I am hoping to get some cardinals in the future, but because of their initial sesitivity, I was thinking that if I got a small school of neons established first, the cardinals might school with the neons and might do better if they had this already established school to join. What do you think?

TheXman

The quick answer is yes they do… on the other hand after they settle in and become accustom to their environment they start to disperse and school very little.

[fresh_lynny]

quite an impressive set up!
I do think the algae detracts form the overall appearance. Co2 an issue?

[jt20194]

Originally Posted by fresh_newby

quite an impressive set up!
I do think the algae detracts form the overall appearance. Co2 an issue?

Thanks Lynn. I agree with you about the algae. Indeed, after looking at the other member’s tanks including yours, I am hoping that I’ll have enough time to do a total remake in so far as the aquascaping. When I started this project, I focused mostly on establishing the framework to allow me to have complete control of the tank’s support elements; lighting, filter, UV, CO2 and such. I think I have that worked out, now I need to leverage it to reach that balance between great plant growth and no algae.

My biggest problem is hair algae, especially on the driftwood that is closest to the lights. I read that too much iron could cause that. My CO2 levels should be close to… I just did a retest of my KH. Looks like you could be right!!! It took only one drop which means it’s likely between .5 and 1 dKH. My pH is 6.4. I’ll adjust it to 6.1 and see if that helps.

Thanks for making me look at this again. I was blending pre RO water (sediment and carbon block filtered) with RO/DI water to get the dKH to 2. I decided to stop that since my water valves weren’t accurate enough to set the flow rates I wanted. Accordingly, I have been only using RO/DI water with ferts. I’ll get better valves and return to blending my water. This also reduces the amount of water being wasted.

Got to love this hobby. I’ll be posting in the future when I do the remake with new substrate and layout and expect to get help with this . I only wish I could start it today but it will have to wait until time permits.

Jim