The 700 gal indoor sunken garden project

[medicineman]

@Y0uH0,
No, it is far from completion. I think the team will camuflage it or hide it some more.

@PinkRasbora,
There you have it and more to come as the work progress. No diving gear perhaps just smimming gear for me to go in every couple of months.

@organic sideburns,
Two tanks is already enough for me. Time will tell if I have time to keep them all, that is why this one is built as a very low maintenance system that can be left to run automatically for a month or more inbetween time consuming maintenance.

@JenTheplantGeek,
Everybody loves big tank project (but not the problems behind that )

@mr.gaboozlebag,
Plants probably non biotope setup.
Non aquatics: ephifits; bromeliads, orchids, ferns, creeping plants like pothos, philodendron, forest floor plants, etc.
Aquatics : low to medium light plants. No too much stem plants that require uprooting and trimming. Perhaps a bit of floating plants. Aquatic-terrestrial plants like pennywort, moss, anubias under and over water, etc.
Fish : no idea yet. You guys want to candidate something?

[SuRje1976]

Amazing...your tank looks like it will be bigger than my bedroom.

[fresh_lynny]

leave it to me to see faces in the rock cliffs you made...lolol How cool will bromiliads look on those pockes, with orchids and creeping Jenny draping down into the water? This is a grea project!

[A Hill]

this is an awsome project! i would suggest frogs for the above water part.. but you said it would be all open so that probably isnt a great idea...

also the wall seems to just stop at one point, will it go up to the top or will pothos and creepers and vines just go up on their own to hide the obvious gap?.

for plants i would love to see a lot of bromiliads and things like you have listed. they will look really cool, for the underwater, why not go with some floaters as well like lillypads and red root floaters and things like that.

for inhabitants... do something that most people normally cant. something big. or a ton of small fish like german blue rams +angles or something. maybe altums?

you sure do like big tanks and projects!

- fish newb -

ohh and that backdrop is amazing! have you seen the ones people use for dart frogs? if not.. Dendroboard - Your source for dart frog information. maybe the people over there will have ideas for you as well?

[medicineman]

@fresh_newbie,
Lol... it is time now for the game : find the ghost!

@Fish newb, (no wonder sometimes people will get you wrong for fresh_newbie and vice versa)
Frogs... like the looks especially dart frogs like green or azureus, but then with free opening and no enclosure to keep extra moisture in, I will be asking for trouble (drying or escaping frogs by the sofa).
The wall carving will not stop there, it is far from finished (work progress from bottom up). It will continue almost up to the roof opening.
Lilypads from the non high light families can grow well, but not the light loving lotus family found in open ponds.
Inhabitants...hohoho.. loads of fish? the big ones? Must resist... can not...
Even though a large number of tight schooling species will appear at best inside bigger enclosure...
*Dendroboard is one of the "poisoning" factor into giving the idea .
I guess "Great Stuff" foam is not usable when building this big. They do have some allergy building vivs using concrete due to not so compatible nature for delicate frogs.

Back to the garden..



Here we can see the floor is excavated for waste water plumbing, huge drain pipes will be installed along that hole. Excess water from plant watering drain, pond overflow, floor drain will be channeled into one huge control box, pre filtered and goes into the waste water plumbing. Without a pre filtered control box, you will only looking for trouble from clogged pipes because debris from backwash, soil, etc will accumulate. The box's job is to retain all bigger particles and make them sink, so the plumbing will be save from clogging while the box must require some cleaning every several months.

OK... perhaps some wood or woody vines dangling from the wall would look cool (as in XXL vivariums). We will see later in the project if wood work will be used.

[medicineman]

How do you attach glass to concrete lining? (discussion revised)



The pic shows steel bars reinforcement as skeleton for concrete lining/frame. On top of that (and by the side) a piece of 19mm glass will sit and creating a viewing window which has no support by the top (like of those ADA tanks). There are two viewing windows which will meet at right angle (divided by small concrete pillar for strength), one measuring 150cm and another one 200cm, both glass will be around 55-60cm tall (depending on installation) from the concrete frame.

There are several ways I know of people attaching glass to concrete lining.

1. Stick it with silicone on one side only and let water pressure work to secure the glass. Easiest to install but somewhat less support at the top of the glass).


2. Stick it with silicone inbetween concrete frame. Much more difficult to install, require good hands and timing to install.


My contractor prefers option #2 due to the strength which will affect longevity and safety. However, I feel that they underestimate the pressure from water that will be there once the pond is filled. It is going to be a mere 55cm water height that the glass must hold off - the water height that will be held back by concrete portion need not be accounted for (even 12mm glass would be sufficient and very safe, not to mention thick 19mm) so they are pretty sure about installing just 5cm of the glass into the frame. I might sound paranoid but I'm not sure about that mere 5cm, they said that even in aquariums you silicone only less than 2 cm on the joint no matter how thick is your glass (say 12-15mm) so 5cm would be overkill and enough to hold off that kind of depth. Everybody knows that in this condition the point of greatest glass stress is at the bottom, right at the frame-glass joint.

Sooo... you experts right here must let me know whether the contractor will screw up and cause the glass to blow up (hopefully during test and not after I decor) or whether 5 cm will do fine and safe for years. Please help me with experience/theory and no better safe than sorry precaution (doing being safe better than sorry would simply insert the whole thing for 8 inches! )

[nornicle]

medicineman..

truly jaw dropping stuff...

everytime i see you setting up something, the scale is so imaginative...

[esarkipato]

I've lived in apartments smaller than that tank.

Interesting issue with the installation of glass. Will the viewing windows be supported on 3 sides by concrete, or just the bottom? IF it's 3...I would go with option 1.

[CardBoardBoxProcessor]

mm.. alot of work for jsut a 700 gallon.. then again that 1600-1700 gallon tank journal I saw had that part of the house build for it already >>

[SCMurphy]

Every time I see a public aquarium set up something like this they used acrylic that was at least an inch thick. The 'groove' would cause a problem if the pane flexes, making it more susceptible to breaking. The non-groove installation allows the pane to flex without having a fulcrum/lever effect across the pane.

Someday I want to know what you do to be able to afford such giant setups. I'm just a little jealous.

[medicineman]

@SCMurphy
Thanks for the reminder and information, I will let the team know to order a taller glass for me to set on a single pane style. The reason why they insist still on using groove style perhaps due to their experiences installing huge pane of window glass which never experience huge water pressure.
The single sided silicone style is what they use in even bigger tanks in my country (private tanks). The problem is it seems nobody give me a good reason/answer to why the set it up that way. Either are ignorant that they just copy from similar large tank without knowing the purpose OR they decided to play stupid and let see what bad thing happens to me if I set the glass wrongly.

@CardBoardBoxProcessor,
Yes, a lot of work just for 700 gallon if you see it as a regular tank. This style of tank requires more work than regular 4 sided glass/acrilic tank. It is a sunken garden after all, with real plants all the way to the top and not to forget it is built integrated with the house right by the living room, so everything must be done correct. NO bigger displacement tank for me now, I can imagine the pain of maintenance....

@esarkipato,
It is 3 sided and now I decided to install it on a single pane (no groove).

@nornicle,
Thanks... perhaps you consider me as a dreamer. There is a limit to this building big stuff because I maintain the system personally (and limited free time will dictate it all).

[medicineman]

Proggres pics:

Taken at around 11.00 to illustrate light availability. From this time to around 2.30 sunlight tend to be hitting quite directly to the pond area (lowest part).



The backdrop is done up to around 14+ feet with spacing until 18 feet. The rest up to the roof opening will not be heavily carved.

Close up on the detail.



The texture is not yet finished as work continue. It does change colour from dark to lighter due to the drying of material.

[organic sideburns]

Wow, awesome pics thanks for keeping us updated. Looks to be very fun!

[medicineman]

I want to hear your opinion about additional supplemental/viewing lighting for this one. It is kinda hard to decide as this one is unlike regular tank. Pendant style fixture is attractive but must not be hanged too low (or else they will spoil the scenery), I think at least 8 feet high from water level will look great. I saw amano did this with no problem on his giant tank, although his is much closer, more like 4-5 feet away from the water surface.

If you happen to ever been in Singapore's Changi airport, you might remember this indoor fern garden with a koi pond by the terminal. The lighting is supplied by many metal halide downlight very far away (something like 18+ feet away). Yet it is enough to sustain the life of all tree ferns and other kind of ferns (yes, they are real and alive!! and they've been there for more than a year without dying) far below.



Looking at my project condition, metal halide is the only obvious option. With natural sun lighting condition and the nature of plants (non high light plants) to be considered, I'd say 400W bulb would be sufficient to punch through the distance and depth. Two of such bulb would be more than enough to cover the pond evenly.

[Y0uH0]

Originally Posted by medicineman

If you happen to ever been in Singapore's Changi airport, you might remember this indoor fern garden with a koi pond by the terminal. The lighting is supplied by many metal halide downlight very far away (something like 18+ feet away). Yet it is enough to sustain the life of all tree ferns and other kind of ferns (yes, they are real and alive!! and they've been there for more than a year without dying) far below.


Looking at my project condition, metal halide is the only obvious option. With natural sun lighting condition and the nature of plants (non high light plants) to be considered, I'd say 400W bulb would be sufficient to punch through the distance and depth. Two of such bulb would be more than enough to cover the pond evenly.

For a moment there,i thought the lights that were providing lighting for the plants at Changi airport were normal lights until you highlighted the fact that they were actually metal halides..It slipped my mind for ahwile there. Finally there is an answer to my all time question about how they managed to keep the plants alive in there and yes,they are real living plants.
Hmm,would exposing your pond to direct sunlight be a risk in terms of algae problem? I would most probably go with the metal halide option as it allows you to restrict the amount of light that your setup receives. At the same time,have you considered other forms of lighting say coloured lights or night lights to further enhance the look of your mega project during different times of the day?