The 700 gal indoor sunken garden project

[RoseHawke]

Well, nope, it seems to be pretty normal here when dealing with distributors and contractors for stuff to be late . So much so that when they're on time, and on schedule it's something of a shock!

[medicineman]

@red406,
Terima kasih (thank you)
I know in M'sia there are nastier setups like the basement sunken garden... too mad for me though.

@Hop,
Glad you are following so far...

@RoseHawke,
LOL
Lucky enough that we have another house to stay at while waiting.

OK... it has been too long since there is ever any update, so here I go again.

As mentioned before that I might be needing a form of extra lighting to supply the lower part of the garden with sufficient light to grow that compact plants and wider selection. And that lighting source other than natural sunlight which hits in enough intensity during noon hours must be artificially made. To light up something this big while looking good, there can be only one way; going for HID. My choise is MH again since HPS would be too yellow and promotes too much of just vegetative growth.

I pick 400W MH light with tough industrial fixture. All metal alloy casing with reasonable quality reflector combined with 6,000K osram lamp. I know people saying that I might not have enough light intensity and coverage with just 400W and advise double fixture and even a single 1000W MH system.
My doubt about using 400W MH light is answered from testing, as shown here



Hanged at around 3-4 feet from expected water surface (shown here with low water level, around 5 feet away), the fixture spreads almost the correct coverage I want. Not too much spills, but lighting up all the pond area as well as a small part of the lower cliff. Easy on the eyes of the viewers and does not obstruct the overall view too much. Anyway when the house is inhabited, there will be gentle ambient light for the house, negating the extreme contrast a bit.

Selecting 400W light is a correct decision I'd say. You can see part of the cliff is all washed out, indicating how serious 40,000 lumens of light can be even though it is hanged several feet away (compared to several inches in a tank as in CF lights). The top part above the light may be almost pitch dark at night, but during daytime they get much more sunlight than the lower area. That can be fixed easily with mild CF spotlight to create some mellow lighting effects on canopy when it is getting dark.

[A Hill]

You aren't going to hang it right there though are you? I think you should use it as a spotlight from maybe under the stairs?

I think it would obscure the view waaaay too much just right in the middle...

-Andrew

[medicineman]

Not to worry too much. I've had to decide position and not from under the stairs at such point due to several considerations :
- Plants are phototropic which means they grow in the direction of where light hits. Giving them light at extreme angle would slant their growth towards the light source. Extreme angle would equal to light source from under stairs.
- Giving even light on the pond. At greater angle, nearer point would be much brighter than the farther area.
- Viewer's discretion. Placing lights too high or from the wrong angle will greatly effect the viewers, possibly causing too much discomfort.

I'm agree with the obstructing view problem. But actually the light itself is very small compared to the rest of the view that I consider it acceptable. There are other ways of installing the light though which involves making poles and steel cables from under the ceiling... which still can be considered. But with the great height and the position of where the light should be is exactly at the glass of the skylight, designing would be some challenge.
Note that currectly the lamp is hanged with a single wooden beam, just for testing and is not the actual thing.

Now if we see a point of view that probably is not seen yet so far.



You can notice that the distance between under the stairs and the current lamp height is far apart, the stairs railing is quite near the current lamp height though. So there is another possibility of making a wrought iron extension, artistically designed to hang the lamp on.

[whitepine]

I think you could look into a canopy that would direct the light more like a spot light and hang it closer to the ceiling. You could also do this with a larger lamp(1000w).

Hydroponics, Indoor Gardening Supplies, Hydroponic Systems - home

They also make hangers that can be raised and lowered like blinds.

Cheers, Whitepine

[medicineman]

Using spot light type MH? Might work. But at higher level, more light will be lost and I would end up using much stronger light, such as 2 x 1000W MHs. I think by then I would see some power guzzling issues with other tanks I will be running

I'm actually planning to hang the light that low, just for the boost of the pond part since the upper region is already well dreched by stray sunlight. The light itself is actually falling in just nice with no obvious dark spot inside the pond.



A wrought iron hanger (garden style) specially shaped and mounted from the stairs' side would look sweet. Add in a pivot on the mount, and the hanger could be swinged to free the view, perfect for sunny months when additional light is less needed and overall photo sessions.

[filipnoy85]

Originally Posted by medicineman

A wrought iron hanger (garden style) specially shaped and mounted from the stairs' side would look sweet. Add in a pivot on the mount, and the hanger could be swinged to free the view, perfect for sunny months when additional light is less needed and overall photo sessions.

Good idea! It would look pretty good, just make sure you swing it out of the way of everything else when you free the view. What would be even move cool would be having it on a timer where it automatically swings out of the way during the bright midday and swings back and turns on during the early evening!

[plasko]

Wow, this project is absolutely amazing!! I am definitely watching this one

[A Hill]

Originally Posted by whitepine

I think you could look into a canopy that would direct the light more like a spot light and hang it closer to the ceiling. You could also do this with a larger lamp(1000w).

Hydroponics, Indoor Gardening Supplies, Hydroponic Systems - home

They also make hangers that can be raised and lowered like blinds.

Cheers, Whitepine

Thats what I was thinking... Maybe put it on an automatic timer so at the time when you don't need it, it would be pulled up to the ceiling then say pulled off to the side by some pulley thing to keep it out of the way... I just would hate to see the amazing view gone!

And now I see why they stairs don't work... I thought they where higher!

[medicineman]

Hey... I really like the idea of automatic retrieve and put aside concept!

Though I must think hard and see in what extent I can make that into reality while still looking at the possibility without further altering/modifying the seems never ending house renovation.

A winch, a roller, a pivot and some form of electrical control box for precise trigger mechanism which swings the lamp into place, lowers the cable and hit the power on at the right time and retrieve the cable, hit the light off and swings it back after all is done. Definately a big plus if all of that process can be done automatically via timer. I will need more serious engineering and the right guys to consult, concept and build it for me.

[reddstagg]

Just a simple thought on the automatic retriever... those automated door openers for steel front gates would work a treat, and there must be an easy way to hook it up to an electronic timer.

However, i wouldn't stray from your original ideas too much, if you get distracted by the bells and whistles of the project you negate the core aspects.

I have been lurking and reading this thread with a lot of interest.
There are 2 'extreme' fish designs i love ready, this one and another guy who grows corals in greenhouses.

Dean

[A Hill]

Originally Posted by medicineman

Hey... I really like the idea of automatic retrieve and put aside concept!

Yeah I do too... I would only look into that if I where you. The other ways just make it too ugly really I guess I would say.

How about something like this for a lighting track (no no not the lighting system he has there LOL!)

See First Picture:
Oregonreef.com

More info on his lighting:
Oregonreef.com

My thought is if you could put the lighting on some type of track that isn't exactly straight so it would just need the light to be pulled up then it would pull it over when pulling in the cable... now putting the light back out and over might be a complication...

But I think it would be MUCH better than the other idea. Especially if the light just hung on something like a SS cable, very minimalistic.

-Andrew

Have a link to the coral greenhouse?

[Evergreen]

Can't wait to see some green!

[medicineman]

Hmmm... I'm in the troubleshoot mode on the lighting mounting.

The ceiling is very, very high and I must ask my contractor if it is advisable to make brackets and hang some 30-35lbs of weight (additional weight from cables and such) on it. If not likely, then I'm back to square one using nice and slim metal hanger fitted from the stairs. It is OK each way for me and I'm sure both way would not look that bad if done correctly.



(dont mind the hanger yet)
There will be additional spot lights from the top, not serious light power, just for night time effect.

Just now I think of substrate and it cross my mind that I will be needing more than 2000lbs of gravel/sand!
Not to mention the transport and price I will face, getting any one kind of substrate in one go will prove a problem. A sand/gravel pit center is the most likely place to hunt. Looking for 50 big bags is not from ordinary shop.
Washing that much sand will give me sore hands and bad back ache for sure. A lot of helping hands and weeks of washing will surely happen and the day eventually will come

[fish man 101]

Any updates on this awesome project medicineman??