ADA Aqua Soil common misconception

[plantbrain]

Originally Posted by Jason Baliban

There are products from ADA that are completely a rip off, and there are things that are absolutely amazing.

AS is one that is amazing.

jB

I agree as well and Ian and most folks would say the same having used a number of sediments.

Perhaps the entire line is lifestyle choice etc, however, one good product that works well and is reasonable vs the other products is not a bad option by any means.

If you honestly believe soil, you ought to be using plain sand, soil and kitty litter.

Kitty litter is Clay, peat is also cheap.

Both have long histories of use.
I've used all of these and about 2 dozen other concoctions. ADA AS is pretty good for the $ and does very well for growing plants.
That's what I use for my personal tanks if that gives you any indication and I can afford pretty much anything I want and can make.

If you are cheap, you may as well go all the way and use plain sand and soil/Kitty litter.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[milesm]

tom,

i take exception to your reply. seems pretty arrogant and haughty, but that's your style. your response that "...I can afford pretty much anything I want..." though, is over the top. not all of us are in the same financial situation. not all of us share the same level of passion that you and others hold for the hobby. not all of us are willing to put as much money and time (a much more precious resource to me) as you do.

you've said many a time, the first question one must ask oneself is what does one want to get out of a planted tank?

i am very satisfied with my plain sand/turface substrate and ei methodology. i don't need to try the more demanding plants like tonina. i don't feel the need to rip out my newly established glosso lawn, and replace it with hc. would i like to? yeah, sure, why not. would i want to devote the TIME and money to do so? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

AS is $50 for a 9l bag--good enough for one 20 gal tank--bought either online or at a lfs. my way would cost ten times less. is AS 10 times better?

i guess a better question would be, am i "cheap"?

[sayn3ver]

milesm,

Last time i bought AS, it was 26$ for a 9L bag...which covered as much as i'd say 2 eco-complete bags.

Secondly, i think Tom meant that even though he has the finacials to purchase any substrate or make any, he prefers the AS(which is cheaper than other "aquarium soils") per volume.

Granted i find that my AS breaks down alittle, i've gotten decent growth for my first tank. At the same time i just set up a 15g out on my deck(naturally lit, outside, with just a small circulation pump) with peat moss and soilmaster select and am getting amazing growth from my low maintence plants out there.

I already purchased through a group buy additional AS bags for my next tank cause it ended up being cheaper than almost all the other aquairum products(not cheaper than SMS, dirt, sand, etc). I like both though and I'd probably recommend SMS or equivilant if dosing ferts since you get good bang for buck and they age well IMSE (in my short experience).

Use what you like. I like trying everything before making up my mind cause personal experience is worth it now in the day of the interweb forum(granted they can definetly help steer you in a good direction).

[justinq]

For what it's worth, I have been using Aquasoil Amazonia with a layer of Power Sand for the last eight months and am very impressed with it. In my experience, it isn't true that it doesn't cloud tank water, but that seems typical of most planted tank substrates. I wouldn't recommend rinsing it, though. I personally haven't had any problems with it breaking down at all. My only issue with the substrate is that when I did my first water change before I had any foreground plants grown in, the PS ended up rising to the top of the AS due to the substrate being disturbed. Since then, I've had pieces of PS on the the surface in my foreground, which initially bothered me a lot, but isn't much of a problem now that it's covered with plants. And no, simply pushing the PS back down into the substrate was not effective, so I gave up on "fixing" it. It doesn't seem to have negatively effected that area of the tank's ability to grow plants, though, and I could have avoided the problem had I realized beforehand how easy it was to disturb the AS when there are no plants anchoring it down.

[jsenske]

When I get a little Power Sand up top I remove it with a spoon-- just scoop it out, takes about 3 minutes.

[plantbrain]

Originally Posted by milesm

tom,

i take exception to your reply. seems pretty arrogant and haughty, but that's your style.

And yours is extremely personal and off topic.
You don't know me personally so do not pretend to

your response that "...I can afford pretty much anything I want..." though, is over the top.

It is?
The difference in cost between ADA AS and say Flourite or Eco complete are small. I can afford these for my tanks. Let's take my comment in the context from which is was taken now shall we?
Why you chose to pull up some personal insult garbage is really beyond me.

Many folks can and do afford these, does that make every one of those folks who do not, poor and second class? Get real.

Stick to plants and attack ideas, not folks.

The topic is and was ADA AS.
The context was specific about the other brands.
I also made mention of other cheaper options if you chose for whatever reason, cost, DIYer, want to do something different etc. Such choices are hardly made based upon economic consideration alone.

Aquarists can be cheap, but still very able to afford luxury items, say like the aquariums themselves. We chose to afford those and some might view us as haughty or arrogant also. But that's your style, attack a person personally and twist it to meet your own perception about me.

Nice.

not all of us are in the same financial situation.

Nor is Juan in the streets of Mexico who cannot even afford a tortillia every day. How do you think they feel? They might consider you an arrogant snotty American also. I've lived places like that, my family was on welfare and food stamps, I've been homeless for a few weeks. Life can suck. So what?

Does not mean I look down upon the homeless, the unlucky nor the rich. Only myself.

I still fail to see your point of argument, this about the difference between 26$ per bag for commericial substrates vs 24$ for the same for Flourite, vs 30$ for Eco complete. If someone wants to go plain sand, they can do that.

I've even stated all this.

Instead, you chose to expess your own personal issue, perhaps you are very insecure about affording things perhaps? That's your deal, do not let that spill over into the hobby. I help folks no matter what their finanical means.
Simply because I can afford any brand of substrate hardly makes me "rich", wealthy or beyond the means of many on this list.

Why you make such assumptions really reflects far more upon you.

not all of us share the same level of passion that you and others hold for the hobby. not all of us are willing to put as much money and time (a much more precious resource to me) as you do.

I guess you should go bash Amano, Jeff Senske or Karen Randall, heck Kyle, our administrator here or anyone else that has different priorities than yourself? I've never stated that you should have these same levels of passion, nor spend this much time, nor $. I will say you can if you want, you have the means if you wish. But that choice is really up to you.
I was homeless, I worked and got a ahead in the game of life and now have options.

You got some issues it seems, and for whatever reason, they decided to come spilling out here. However, it's not the topic of this thread

you've said many a time, the first question one must ask oneself is what does one want to get out of a planted tank?

i am very satisfied with my plain sand/turface substrate and ei methodology.

And I did suggest plain sand, Soil, SMS and have compared these to ADA AS.
I used DIY for a decade before going to Gas CO2, because I was "cheap". I could and can afford many things, but what I chose in another issue.
That's more a personal choice and less a financial one. I can say I cannot afford an aquarium and sink all my money into providing support for a business, or family. Most folks in the hobby are in this senario.

But a 5$ either way is not going to make or break me, nor most aquarists for a bag of sediment. If they feel it is, then there is sand. I made that pretty clear. I can afford either and why this is an issue for it really pointless other than a personal insecurity based on your own preception about someone you know next to nothing about. This is not about buying a car or house, this about a 5$ difference in cost for a luxury item none us "need".

i don't need to try the more demanding plants like tonina. i don't feel the need to rip out my newly established glosso lawn, and replace it with hc. would i like to? yeah, sure, why not. would i want to devote the TIME and money to do so? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

That's fine and you get no argument from me here.
Those are choices however.

Neither you, nor I nor Amano need aquatic plant tanks.
They are luxury items we chose to have and we chose to allocate finanaical resources to them.

Some trade offs might be worthwhie for you(like planted tank ownership and upkeep), while a higher tech Tonia tank might not be. I certainly have no issues with those trade offs, just your assumptions about myself and how you took it way out of context.

AS is $50 for a 9l bag--good enough for one 20 gal tank--bought either online or at a lfs. my way would cost ten times less. is AS 10 times better?

i guess a better question would be, am i "cheap"?

That's a question you have to personally answer. I'm cheap
But I'm willing to pay more for things I think are worth the trade off such as ADA AS. Do I need the nice ADA filters?
No, I'll never buy one even if I had the $ likely.
Can I afford one? Yes.
But I cannot justify the trade off between cost and what I get in return.
50$ a bag?

It's 39.99$ a bag at the LFS here and Jeff sell it's 26$ a bag on line, Flourite goes for 13$ a bag or so, EC about 15$.

Since these are all web prices, they are comparable.
Man folks use these sediments for planted tanks.
Merely because you cannot justify the trade offs and we chose to afford these and the $ to do does not make us haughty nor arrogant.

Can I afford a planted tank? Yes.
Would I say everyone is cheap merely because they do not run out and buy ADA AS?

Never said that.
I gave options and I discuss trade offs.
You can afford the aquarium which is a choice and a luxury item, you apparently can afford that as well.

Some suggested it cost too much. No more than other commericial brands.
Others have long argued for plain sand.
It can be done certainly.

Perhaps the trade off is not worth it to you, you like sand.
It's all I used for 20 years myself.
I had no options back then. I could not justify the trade offs when Flourite came out either. Nor ADA AS. But I tried it and found I liked it and like using it in my tanks. It became worth the trade off.

Simply because someone has another passion, or is more passionate about something and makes different choices than you does not imply they at fault or better/worse than you.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[tropicalfish]

What's the difference between the Amazonia, Malaya, and Africana?

[MrJP]

Now now guys...let's play nice. There is really no need for all this, especially since it can lead to even more misunderstandings!

The bottom line is that when setting up a planted tank, you choose wether you want to use sand/regular gravel or a specialized substrate. The first option is hands down the least expensive considering a 50lbs bag of sand will cost you about $10.

If you choose to go the other route there is no doubt you will get better results but it will also cost you more. But how much? Well its simple...

I have a standard 90g with a 18x48 footprint that i will use as an example. It seems everyone agrees that your primary choices would either be Flourite, eco-complete or ADA AS. Here is the basic cost breakdown for my tank at an average dept of 3' (according to substrate calculator at top of page and adgshop.com/Dr F&S prices):

- Flourite
I would need 90lbs or 6 bags @ $19/each. Total = $114 + shipping

- Eco-complete
I would need 144lbs or 7 bags @ $22/each. Total = $154 + shipping

- ADA AS
I woud need 36L or 4 bags @ $26/each. Total = $104 + $34 shipping = $138

I could not figure out the shipping cost for the first 2 options but some of you can get it locally - so no shipping. Still, it turns out AS is not as expensive as it first seemed! Now this may turn out differently depending on the size of your tank but it will nonetheless give you a good idea on how to proceed.

The funny thing about all this is that I have 100lbs of sand in my tank for $20. Sure it works, but things could be better. Now I want to switch to a more specialised substrate. So initially going with the sand to save some cash will end up costing me more...about 20 bucks more or so!

JP

[nielsamd]

Originally Posted by tropicalfish

What's the difference between the Amazonia, Malaya, and Africana?

Good question. I just bought some African because it was the only one the retailer had in the 3 litre size. Apart from colour the descriptions are the same.

[ianiwane]

Malaya and Africana do not have as much nutrients as the Amazonia. Also they will not soften water as much as the Amazonia. For these two reasons people normally choose Amazonia over the other two.

[eklikewhoa]

......the color is different too.


malayan is a tannish color, africana a more red clay looking and amazonia dark brown/black.

[ianiwane]

Originally Posted by eklikewhoa

......the color is different too.


malayan is a tannish color, africana a more red clay looking and amazonia dark brown/black.

But that is pretty obvious. I was stating a point that was not so obvious.

[plantbrain]

Originally Posted by ianiwane

But that is pretty obvious. I was stating a point that was not so obvious.

But do they taste as good as they look?

I have a dozen soil samples of delta sediments I need processed for NO3, NH4, CEC, pH, Fe and some other parameters.

If someone has some Malaya, or Africana, they'd be interested in sending me say 500mls or so worth, I can give you the analysis.

I'll be doing about 6 sediment types, so adding one or two more will not hurt.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[rharlow]

I would like to go with AS but am having a hard time justifying the cost. It's actually the shipping (here to Maine) that causes the price to jump. Has anyone done any mixing with Flourite and AS? Thanks

Chip

[Momotaro]

Has anyone done any mixing with Flourite and AS?

Not saying it can't be done, but I wouldn't.

The Aqua Soil is a soft material, and the Flourite is a hard material that has had a tendency to compact in my "Flourite only" aquarium. I would imagine the mixing of the two would create a mess over time.

I can't see it looking good either.

Go with one or the other, I think you will be happier in the long run.


Mike