Soilmaster Select Substrate

[orthikon]

Hmm it seems like that would be the case. I did order from the website and chose the pick-up option so that I would not be charged shipping charges but they canceled my order.

They said it would be impractical (and costly) for them to ship just one bag of it.

[Color Me Blue]

I tried emailing the local manager here in San Diego to see if I could get some in charcoal color since all they had was the red. He first told me there would be a shipping charge. I told him that it was not feasible to pay such a shipping charge for just 2 bags. Then he said he could try and get it with his next replenishment shipment so that I wouldn't have to pay the shipping charge. Just when I thought I was going to be able to try Soilmaster Select in charcoal....happy.....I received notice that it's on backorder and he doesn't know when he can get any in.....sad. All in all, he was trying to be very helpful, but of course I couldn't help but feel let-down.

What I don't understand is that the Rancho Cordova facility has it (as stated on their website). So I guess you'll have to be in that area to get some.

On a side note: I was going to go ahead and try the "red" since another member here tried it and it looks pretty darn good, IMO. I planned on topping it off with 3M color quartz black "T" grade anyways. But then I decided to try Turface instead since the place where I got purchased it from was much closer. Maybe once Lesco realizes that many of us are interested in their "charcoal", they'll make it more readily available.

[orthikon]

Color Me Blue,

Is the red your referring to the soilmaster select red or soilmaster soil conditioner red?

I am in the Los Angeles area. I called the San Diego branch and he said the same thing that I had to pay for shipping. Also the manager at the Anaheim branch told me that there were a number of people that were interested in the charcoal color and he mentioned that someone was planning to order a pallet (40 bags) of it. Hmmm perhaps we can organize something like that?

Where did you get the Turface?

From the label of Soilmaster soil conditioner:
Soilmaster soil conditioner is the only product in the industry with the deep red color professionals demand. The red color is even enhanced when the field is wet down before a game. It has an opmtimized mix of particle sizes for use on both infields and turf. The larger granules help fracture compacted soil, opening narrow channels and absorb moisture. Working together, they set up a capillary system which can absorb water effectively and prevent puddling and rain-outs. Soilmaster granules are very durable and will remain permanently rigid in the soil, releasing stored water as needed to help prevent top-dusting in arid condtions.

I just got the soilmaster red and it doesn't seem to be as light as people describes it. It just sinks on its own if I drop it. When I soaked it in water it made a hissing noise. It seemed like it was absorbing water/releasing air that was trapped in the particles. I cannot break it with my fingernails. Particle is size varying, at least 3 mm. It seems to be larger than Soilmaster Select judging from this post( http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/su...oilmaster.html). Unfortunately my digital camera is broken so I cannot post any pictures, however from what I have seen of Fluorite Red, they look very similar.

For those who have used Soilmaster select: are these properties that I am describing similar to the select?

edit: It *could* be that the only difference between Soilmaster Select and Soilmaster Soil coditioner is the grain size just like profile products (see post below, more discussion of that topic follows below that post).

from: http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/profile.html#5

Profile
by Kean Huat Yeap <keanhuat/yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000

Hi! I just want to let you guys know that Profile
Aquatic Plant Soil and Profile Clay Soil Conditioner
are the same product but in different package and
price. I posted this in APD several months ago when I
found this out.

I was looking desperately for Profile Aquatic Plant
Soil in my area when I started my 40 g planted tank 7
months ago. I only found Profile Clay Soil Conditioner
in my local Frank's Nursery. But I wasn't sure if
that's the stuff that everybody is using. I searched
everywhere for the answer for more than 3 weeks. Then
I decided to call up AIMCOR, Profile's manufacturer. I
wanted to order the aquatic plant soil straight from
them. To my surprise, the lady in charge told me that
both of them are the same product. So, I bought 40 lbs
of Profile Clay Soil Conditioner for 11 bucks(if I
still remember correctly).

I use 100% of Profile in my tank and I'm very happy
with it. My plants grow very well in Profile. I have
photos to prove it if you guys are interested. I don't
think Profile has iron like in Fluorite but I can say
that Profile is good for growing lots of plants.
Moreover, Profile is much cheaper compared to
Fluorite.

So, no more guessing or debating, they are the same
product:P


Kean Huat
Oak Park, IL

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

[orthikon]

I just sent an email to Lesco's technical support asking the differences. Will post their reply.

[turbomkt]

SoCal folks...We're trying to get a group together. Some info here. I've also got a private forum I've set up that I'll send you the URL for if you PM me.

I've already been working with the San Diego Lesco on this. I've got one of their bags of (OK, their only bag of) SS Red. I'm trying to coordinate a bulk purchase prior to our first meeting and then I'd handle delivery to the meeting (Pick up trucks are good for something ).

--Mike

[ginnie5]

ok just got off the phone with the manager here. They don't have the charcoal in stock...warehouse doesn't even have it but he was more than happy to order it for me. Total is going to be $17.23. I check back in a week to see if it actually comes in.

[matpat]

Soilmaster comes in four colors, Red, Charcoal, Green, and Brown. When I talked to the Soilmaster Marketing Rep back in October or November they were phasing out the brown or green due to lack of interest. I would think brown and green would be the two that places would be most interested in since those two colors would match grass and dirt the best...the Soilmaster Charcoal, Brown, and Green are actually dyed. As I understand it they are "fired" after dying to make sure they retain their color.

Soilmaster and Soilmaster Select are the same product. The "Select" is much finer grained and similar in particle size and is about a third the size of regular Soilmaster. If anyone wants to see the size difference, go to the Pro's Choice website and contact them by either phone or e-mail. They will send you a pamphlet that includes couple small packages (less than 1 ounce) of Soilmaster, Soilmaster Select, Rapid Dry, and Pro Mound Clay free of charge. I no longer have these or I would post pictures.

Shultz Aquatic Plant Soil (SAPS) and Turface (Both products of the Profile Company) are the same thing and are made from Illite and Fuller's Earth. Soilmaster (Produced by the Oil-Dri corporation) is very similar to these two but is made from montmorillonite clay. Both Soilmaster and Turface/SAPS are called "calcined clays".

Below are a few definitions on the above products from this site: http://home.infinet.net/teban/jamie.htm There are nice comparisons of independent testing done on various substrates, including Flourite. Notice both the low the iron content and CEC of Flourite in comparison with either the Turface or Profile Products!

Montmorillonite - one of the major components of bentonite and fuller's earth. Hydrous aluminum silicate with a considerable capacity for exchanging part of the aluminum for Mg and bases. High natural adsorptive power. Good CEC.

Illite - group of clay minerals having the structure KAl3Si3O10(OH)2. Colorless to pale brown potassium mica. High CEC.

Fuller's earth - porous, colloidal aluminum silicate clay mineral that lacks plasticity and is often used as an adsorbent, folter medium, and a carrier for catalysts. High adsorptive power. Grey to yellow color. Good CEC.

Calcined clays - clays that are heated to a high temperature to cause an extreme hardening and oxidation. They can then be fracted into smaller pieces to be used as a primary substrate base. They become very porous on firing, and provide many nutrient binding sites. Chemically and physically stable. Good CEC.

All of the above seem safe for planted tanks. I have been using SAPS in my tanks for over a year now along with Flourite. I've only used Soilmaster Select for 4-5 months now and both seem to be as safe as other planted tank substrates. I haven't noticed any changes in water parameters of my Soilmaster tank as of yet. GH and KH have remained as stable as my water supply

[orthikon]

Thanks for the much needed info matpat.

[Color Me Blue]

Orthikon: I was talking about the soilmaster select red. Member "Spinnerbayt" is using it and has posted pics. Here is his thread: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/su...soilmaster+red

I got my Turface from a place called "Butler's Mill" ( http://www.butlersmill.com/ ). I had called around to all the garden stores and such in my area looking for Shultz Aquatic soil or other clay soil sediments, but nobody was carrying it. Then I was told to call Butler's Mill since they would probably carry the stuff I was looking for. A 50lbs bag of Turface cost me $12.60. So I figured that was the best choice for me since I couldn't get my hands on SS charcoal and Butler's Mill is wayyyyyy closer.

Turbomkt: pm coming.... I would definitely like to get in on this SS charcoal thing.

As another member in this forum has stated, it just depends where in this country you are to how easily you can get this SS charcoal. It just seems us SoCal members are having a tough go at getting it.

[ShortFin]

Originally Posted by Color Me Blue

What I don't understand is that the Rancho Cordova facility has it (as stated on their website). So I guess you'll have to be in that area to get some.

The Rancho Cordova does not carry it eventhough the website say it does. This was confirmed after talking to customer service and she said she doesn't know why they listed as in stock when it's not.

[milalic]

This is the only soilmaster my lesco has:

http://www.lesco.com/?PageCode=PROD_...mNumber=080310

Will it work for a planted tank. They will not order the other one unless it is a palette of it. I doubt I can find that many persons interested.

THanks,
Pedro

[spinnerbayt]

I'm not sure if that one will work or not. Here is what I have.
http://www.lesco.com/?PageID=27&ItemNumber=083253
I also wanted the charcoal but my lesco didn't have it and he checked the closest warehouse and they didn't even have it so I wasn't going to wait for who knows how long to get it so I went with the red. Now that I have the red I am glad I used it. I have had nothing but good reactions form family and friends when they come over and see the tank. The only thing I can say about it is that when its first put in it holds alot of air pockets, but now that is been in there a while most are gone. As long as I can get the Soilmaster I won't be using anything else. Maybe tomorrow I will take some more pic's and give you guys a update.

[orthikon]

milalic:

The only difference between the Soilmaster Soil Conditioner and the Soilmaster Select is the grain size. See matpat's post.

I have received reply from Lesco and they say the same thing as matpat suggested. I am not on my home computer right now so i cannot post it.

[PHalas]

Originally Posted by matpat

In setting up a planted tank, a dusting of dry peat is used as the bottom layer in CO2 injected tanks. Notice you can still see the orange warning label and the glass through the peat. Up to an inch of presoaked peat can be used in non CO2 enriched tanks.

I see a dusting of dry peat is your preference under the soilmaster.
Have looked at various threads that have suggested an alternative homebrew powersand type mix, consisting of among other things, pumice, laterite, Peat or substitutes of leonardite or lignite plus Zeolite & Terralite.

Have tried to list most of the ingredients that featured prominently in these threads, although never did find any one that actually suggested a proven recipe.

Have access to the Soilmaster pro charcoal locally & this is the substrate of choice for my new tank but was considering the variables for what to put in the bottom of the tank.

Anyone out there tried any such concoctions with any degree of success, or would it just not be warranted under soilmaster Pro. Maybe even not cost effective??

Thanks ~Pete

[matpat]

I've never bothered trying to find leonardite, lignite, pumice, or any of the other items you listed since peat is so easy to find and so cheap! I don't think there would be much advantage one over the other especially once you figure in the time it would take to locate them and possibly have them shipped. I have used Laterite and probably never will again. Way too messy for my tastes. Most Wal Marts have Schultz Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss on their shelves this time of year and it is very easy to find a Wal Mart