Orange Bee shrimp/RCS

[stpeteplanter]

alright, well that's that then.

Thanks for all the info, guys. These will probably become my guinea pigs for my pond/rice paddy. Wish them luck! Haha

[Robert H]

They are a Caridina specie, they are not dyed, and they are a pretty hardy specie. I have had them for over a month now and they have not changed color. There are a number of reasons why shrimp change color. Stress, diet, water conditions, age, and how they are bred.

Every single new color morph that is coming out, there are people on this forum saying, "they must be dyed". More rumors... Cherry reds change color too, and sometimes have no color, and the babies are often not red until they are much older. Do you seriously think that an Asian exporter is going to individually inject dye into something that is less than an inch in size, and do it by the thousands? Do you have any idea how long that would take?

I really like the orange bees, and I havn't heard any complaints yet.

[kvntran]

Robert,

I know that you bought these shrimps for your retail store so I don't really want to step one your toe or anything. But, this story of dyed shrimps goes back a few years ago, I believe it was in 2007. Every store had them, and then every store discontinued them because these shrimps don't retain their colors and all of the customers who bought them reported brown or dull colored shrimps after a few months.

Dyeing doesn't always mean injection, they simply soaked them in colored water until it's really soaked in. An active member in this forum did actually test dyed them, he succeeded. Cherries do change color, they change from red to pale back to red and who knows what else in between, but they breed babies that turn red. What we are seeing with these shrimps are totally different patterns, they lose their color gradually and the color never come back, not to the parents, not to the babies. Sure, some Chinese exporters can always say "it gotta be your environment, your water, or whatever you feed them" and done with it. If these shrimps were in fact color morph shrimps, what good do they mean to all of us when they turn brown, and their babies never show the color?

I know you really want to believe that orange and blue shrimps exist, I do too, but not for that cheap. Retail is selling for $3.00, meaning their cost is probably $1.00 or less.

I really hope that you are right all along, after all it means more choices for us hobbyists, but at the same time, I hate seeing you fall for it because the pattern is obvious, and it had happened times and times again. I did fall for it, I did see these orange in my local store, I did hope I can breed them... and I learned that they are either dyed, or some kind of color morph that changed to their true form and never changed back.

Kevin

[mgamer20o0]

Caridina cf. propinqua
http://shrimpspot.com/orangeshrimp.aspx
http://www.crusta-fauna.org/shrimp-i...-cf-propinqua/
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...propinqua.html

there info out there they seem to be natural orange color just need bw to breed.

cool shrimp to keep just dont get your hopes up.

[stpeteplanter]

has anyone considered that they lose their color from being in fw, not from being dyed? I was hoping these things would breed, and since they won't I don't want em all that much. I like big colonies. My anatomy teacher has a bunch of bw tanks in his room. Im going to give these to him and see how they do. Ill post any results I find here for y'all.

[Scipio]

They may not live in BW in the wild and might only head there to spawn. Like the Amano, who lives in FW but spawns in BW from what I have read. There is very little info on these beautyful orange shrimps out there.

[A Hill]

First off, I never have bought these shrimp myself but I've seen them in person etc.

I think there were a couple different "orange" shrimp species circling around a while ago some seemed to be dyed some did not. Either way most of the shrimp were not able to breed in FW and lost coloration after a few months, so for most hobbyists the reason for keeping these shrimp disappeared.

Originally Posted by Robert H

They are a Caridina specie, they are not dyed, and they are a pretty hardy specie. I have had them for over a month now and they have not changed color. There are a number of reasons why shrimp change color. Stress, diet, water conditions, age, and how they are bred.

Every single new color morph that is coming out, there are people on this forum saying, "they must be dyed". More rumors... Cherry reds change color too, and sometimes have no color, and the babies are often not red until they are much older. Do you seriously think that an Asian exporter is going to individually inject dye into something that is less than an inch in size, and do it by the thousands? Do you have any idea how long that would take?

I really like the orange bees, and I havn't heard any complaints yet.

For the sake of the discussion lets say they're not dyed (right now). They are a caridina species for sure and are hardy as people have reported in the past. Stress, diet, water conditions , and age are the major color factors also genetics like you said. The main thing I think with this shrimp is "diet" there are many "WC" shrimp with wild colors of blue, purple, orange etc which once in the aquarium for a while loose this probably due to a diet difference or something. I have talked to people who have caught a number of the blue species that claim they are blue straight out of the stream or creek or where ever the certain species is collected.

With that said, cherry shrimp are red at birth unless they are males which can generally be pretty light. Yes, the color intensity may vary over their lifetimes and when severely stressed, also the same with all shrimp blue Black Diamonds anyone? Also, I have never really heard anyone claim any of the new Caridina morphs or the neocaridina morphs which have come from hobbyists are dyed, only when nonbreeding FW WC shrimp are imported. Especially when the color does not remain, or if it can reproduce and the color is not present in the offspring.

But...

"Asian exporter is going to individually inject dye into something that is less than an inch in size, and do it by the thousands? Do you have any idea how long that would take?"

It is extremely simple to dye shrimp. I have done it with simple food coloring, and also food. Its even easier to do with snails. I had a thread started on here a while back about it but stopped, because what I did was working and didn't want to see everyone dyeing their shrimp and snails.

Originally Posted by Scipio

They may not live in BW in the wild and might only head there to spawn. Like the Amano, who lives in FW but spawns in BW from what I have read. There is very little info on these beautyful orange shrimps out there.

My understanding is that most shrimp that require SW for reproduction is due to the fact that they live in close proximity to the ocean and live in areas that are FW flowing out to the ocean. This means the baby shrimp are flushed out to sea or just the salt marsh or whatever and as they grow they climb back up the FW streams, creeks, etc. This is why it is so challenging for most hobbyists to breed amano shrimp, filter shrimp, red nose shrimp, etc. The adults do not live in SW or BW though.

Rant off now, Robert if you're interested in the dying I'd be more than happy to talk to you about it as long as it isn't used commercially.

Enjoy your shrimp, they sure are pretty regardless of how they become orange or how they stay orange.
-Andrew

[stpeteplanter]

thanks for the insight andrew, very helpful.

I am interested in these still, I s'pose. mostly I'm curious about the true origin of their color, I'd like to find out if its genetic, environmental, Etc.etc I think the easiest way to do that would be breed them and raise the fry in different conditions. I now have access to a bw tank and a lot of equipment, I suspect I may be able to breed them through trial and error. One thing I can't quite figure is what environmental differences to introduce to the fry to induce color. Different minerals? Food? I really dunno.


Another reason I want to breed them is for my soon-to-be pond. I imagine orange shrimp would make orangeish fish waste. This way I can keep track of How many shrimps my tilapia/whatever are eating, and just their diet accordingly for the best yield.

[A Hill]

Originally Posted by stpeteplanter

thanks for the insight andrew, very helpful.

I am interested in these still, I s'pose. mostly I'm curious about the true origin of their color, I'd like to find out if its genetic, environmental, Etc.etc I think the easiest way to do that would be breed them and raise the fry in different conditions. I now have access to a bw tank and a lot of equipment, I suspect I may be able to breed them through trial and error. One thing I can't quite figure is what environmental differences to introduce to the fry to induce color. Different minerals? Food? I really dunno.


Another reason I want to breed them is for my soon-to-be pond. I imagine orange shrimp would make orangeish fish waste. This way I can keep track of How many shrimps my tilapia/whatever are eating, and just their diet accordingly for the best yield.

So one last post from me on this thread.

I suspect most WC shrimp have a combination of abiotic factors effecting them, especially mineral traces, sunlight, and diet. Possibly high carotene for the orange shrimp I'm not sure. Hopefully you have a lot of equipment and knowledge if you want to breed these shrimp... but the effort needed to rear the fry would not be worth then turning around and using them as food, you're better off reselling the shrimp.

Fish eating orange shrimp will most likely not turn their turds orange sorry to say. You're better off just feeding fish a normal diet and making sure you feed enough by watching their behavior etc. Tilapia are a very commonly farmed fish so I'm sure you'd be able to find out tons of information about their dietary requirements online and whatnot, and I'm also sure that farmers don't count fish poop

Enjoy the hobby for what its worth though, if you want to breed orange shrimp that are $3 a pop to feed to Tilapia in a pond thats your decision and I will try not to hold it against you

-Andrew

[stpeteplanter]

Quick update, I've had these shrimp for a bit over a month now and they're still just as orange as when I bought them.