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Old 01-02-2010, 07:15 PM   #16
crossbow
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Thanks for the advice guys. In that case, I'm going to order another 20 lbs to fill out the tank. Something to do next weekend!
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:49 PM   #17
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The goldfish are destroyers of all things plants. It's a challenge trying to find things they won't attempt to eat. I watched one of the black moors eat an entire val like a guinea pig, all in one long line...then poop it out an hour later...lol.

The plants (other then algae issues still) are still winning slightly vs the 5 grazing cows, and have been sending off babies and little shoots everywhere. I've thrown together a separate tank, to handle some of these extra plants. Any offspring I'm placing in the 20L, as well as any plants the goldfish dislodge.



It's a bit of a mishmash right now, as it's using spare parts to run. You will notice a few things...

1) It's got actual plant gravel! (eco-complete)
2) It's got a DIY CO2 system, with the hagen modded distribution system!

Trying to apply some of the lessons I've been learning . The 20L also has the lighting from the original seaclear hood, (2x20 watt 6700K), the fluval 200watt heater, and the goldfish aquaclear 70.

I don't know about the lighting so far...after dealing with the AHsupply lighting, the seaclear lighting seems weak and pathetic. I'm watching the growth, and it's not as rapid as I would have thought. The seaclear hood doesn't even have reflectors for it's two lights. Just some standard bulbs in some sockets.

Should I look into getting an 55watt AHsupply kit for this tank? Thoughts? Ideas?
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Old 01-06-2010, 11:48 PM   #18
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How long have you had the plants in the 20L? Plants often times need to adjust to the new parameters and develop roots, and this might be why you're noticing slow growth. Still, you're only receiving 2WPG (yes, I realize the WPG rule is not very reliable) and that might be limiting your growth too, as you noted. If you have the money, I don't think you can go wrong with the 55W kit. Just so you know, with increased lighting there is a chance for more algae; however, it sounds like you don't plan on stocking the 20L so if algae becomes an issue you can increase your CO2 levels.
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:43 AM   #19
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Dj,
Thanks for the reply. I guess the one thing I haven't yet learned with planted tanks is patience. I'll give it a few weeks before I invest in another lighting solution. Maybe instead I'll figure out a way to separate these two lights and mount them to AHsupply reflectors. That at least would be quite a bit cheaper!
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Old 01-16-2010, 08:04 PM   #20
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Some small updates. For my birthday I got a nice dr fosters gift certificate, and with the help of this forum and multiple coupon codes/CK goodness, got a load of goodies. Part of the goodies is the new substrate that will be replacing the "blue" gravel from petsmart. Right now I've got about 70 lbs of eco-complete, but might order one more batch and put another 10 lbs in the 20L, and 80 lbs total in the 46 bowfront. (Current gravel amount is 50 lbs of generic blue crap in the 46).

[Any comments on this? 40 lbs in the 20L and 80lbs in the 46 bow?]

I've also being doing lots of research into pressurized Co2, and have begun prepping for it's install as well. Going to go with a GLA (GLA Model) regulator, with a 10 lb tank, with a rex reactor for diffusion. I'm going to be running a day/night cycle, with the co2 shutoff an hour before lights out, and turned back on an hour before startup. Turns out there is a roberts oxygen within walking distance to me, so now I just have to figure out where to get a used 10 lb tank.

In the meantime, my local LFS got some nerite snails in stock...i bought 5 of them, and a few days later, went back and bought the remaining 2. Sorry if anyone was hoping to get any! These things are incredible. They've completely eliminated any remaining algae on the sword leaves in a matter of days. They also seemed to have "flushed out" where some of the remaining pond snails have been hiding, which i quickly squashed.

Here's a photo of the recovered sword. I almost killed 3 swords while trying to learn how to fert and such...pretty much lost 90% of their main leaves, but now have recovered and are slowly coming back up.



White balance is off (iphone photo)...and the fish love to steal the spotlight. But you can clearly see some of the snail poop on one of the leaves I was about to trim off a few days ago, and now is completely cleaned off.


As for the goldfish grazing/destructors, here are my successes and failures so far.

Baby tears. Were devoured within a few days.

Duckweed that came with another plant by accident. Gone in hours.

Swords. Generally left alone, unless a leaf is damaged, then the moors slowly tear off pieces. On a happier note, the black moors also ate ALL of the hair algae off of these.

Vals. Inital planting was very thin strands. The moors ripped these up pretty good. But each strand that was removed, was replaced by a 4-6x thicker strand of grass, which the goldfish no longer attacked. The amount of Val's in the tank has quadrupled since the original planting, and are slowly filling the back of the tank.

Anacharis : The goldfish can't beat this plant. No matter how much they eat, it grows back, basically creating an endless cycle of goldfish auto trimming/growing.

Moss Balls: The goldfish vacuum these daily. They are very slowly swelling in size.

Money Wort: The moors tore and damaged the leaves of these plants so severely that they began dying off. I moved the healthiest remaining plant to nursery tank upstairs.

Water Wisteria: These leaves are too fragile for the goldfish, and one bunch of plants was eviscerated. They're regrowing in the nursery tank now. The remaining bunch seems to have thickened it's leaves and the goldfish are leaving it alone now.

Green Camboa: I love the way this plant looks. The goldfish leave it alone generally, as it slowly grows upwards to the top of the tank. One piece grew high enough to enter the xp3 outflow stream, and snapped its stem.

The mystery unnamed plant: I originally purchased this plant as a "water sprite"



The goldfish tore its leaves down, and left it as bare stems. I noticed some leaves growing at the base, so I trimmed the long stems off and waited...eventually getting this regrowth.



The regrowth of leaves is much different. They are significantly thicker and broader, and have a yellowish/red tint to them. I believe this is the plant in question, but am not entirely sure.

Rotala Indica
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...18&pcatid=1618

Any thoughts?

Upcoming plant types I'm attempting, are a java fern, and some dwarf rush grass. (The randomness is due to local plant sales )

Last but not least. Someone on the forum was showing how to make an extremely cheap but somewhat ugly looking lighting setup for tanks that aren't show tanks. I took their advice and setup up 3 vertical cone reflectors with 23 watt CFL's. (about 22 bucks in total) The effect blows the default 2x20 watt seaclear hood away. I thought I had pearling before...ha!



That's my latest update! Thanks for reading!
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Old 01-16-2010, 10:13 PM   #21
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i love reading your journal! it's so detailed i feel like im reading a book or something haha. congrats on your success with keeping plants and goldfish together, it can be challenging!
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Old 01-16-2010, 11:06 PM   #22
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I'm enjoying all the details as well.
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:08 AM   #23
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I love your tank, I have Goldfish as well and am actually looking at the same bowfront to upgrade. I should let you know that MOST plants, GF will eat. The only ones I can tell you you'll have major success with are the large leafed swords and ferns along with the moss balls. And when they get bigger they might even trying pulling those out of your substrate. Just my advice

Basically whatever they can fit in their mouths, they eat. Rofl.
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:20 AM   #24
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I think your "mystery plant" is Rotala indica.

The blue gravel keeps killing me (lol) but I'm liking the tank, otherwise, and I've got this thread subscribed so I can refer the next person who comes along and wants to try a planted goldfish tank!
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:48 AM   #25
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What type(s) of Nerites did you buy? Olives? Make sure they get enough calcium in their diet (cheapest way is likely a piece of cuttlebone that they can snack on).
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Old 01-22-2010, 03:34 PM   #26
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Thanks for your comments guys!

Quote:
Basically whatever they can fit in their mouths, they eat. Rofl.
LOL I believe this. I think the only thing preventing the goldfish from eating certain plants is their size! Once these guys get a few inches larger, say goodbye to everything with fragile leaves! I'm hoping by the time this happens, I'll be in a new place where I can put together a 120 tank, just for the goldfishes, then try turning the 46 into a tetra tank, like laura's .

Laura,
Ha ya. Don't worry, I have 80 lbs of eco-complete waiting to go in there. I'm just planning out driftwood and a semi-scape before I tear down the tank. I'm also giving the XP3 a full month or two to accumulate as much bacteria as possible, so as to minimize any cycles which occur from dumping 50 lbs of bacteria gravel out.

dj,
Yes they are olive nerite snails. Wow good to know. Will any cuttle bone work? I guess I could just break off a piece of it and place it in the back of the tank?


Here are some photos for your viewing pleasure. The first is the wicked piece of driftwood that showed up at my local LFS the other day. It looks like a prehistorical dino skull! The best part? The back section of it, is curved perfectly for the XP3 intake/sponge...it's like someone designed it to fit back there! The driftwood also has very few sharp edges (good for moors), and any existing edges, I will probably sand the tips down to prevent any fish disasters.





Last is a photo of some of the river rocks I picked up. My other local LFS has some much larger ones, so I'll probably pick up a few of those to get different sizes. I'm sure these things will just get covered in algae anyway, but I thought they'd be nice to breakup the dark eco-complete color.



I'll try and get a photo of the plant growth progress in the nursery tank later today...it's currently having a massive outbreak of brown algae, caused by my overdosing ferts. I didn't realize how many nutrients the eco complete had in it. I'm stuck doing cleaning and 50% water changes for a while, and pumping the CO2 in there like crazy.
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Old 01-22-2010, 04:29 PM   #27
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great journel and a pretty neat idea...
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Old 01-22-2010, 04:55 PM   #28
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That's a beautiful piece of DW!

I look forward to seeing the new 'scape come together. (Especially the black Eco... LOL)
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Old 01-22-2010, 04:57 PM   #29
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good luck man. This reminds me alot of my journey into planted tanks as well. So full of ignorance and bad purchases....

But it kept my brain occupied and it was alot of fun. Sometimes it got tedious... but every time I would finish something tedious, I would be so happy.

Also the many times I would research a particular area co2, light, substrate, plants, fish, and then impliment it to my tank.

I'm still attempting to master my own fish tank (journal), though I get better and better at it. Its always a journey forward.

I did not journal my first tank nearly as much as you did. Its fun to read it and look back at how it mirrors my own experience with it. Keep up good spirits and HAVE FUN!
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Old 01-22-2010, 05:26 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crossbow View Post
dj,
Yes they are olive nerite snails. Wow good to know. Will any cuttle bone work? I guess I could just break off a piece of it and place it in the back of the tank?
You can wait and see if your water is sufficient. If you see shell erosion then they need more calcium. Cuttlebone is very cheap and easy to obtain which is why I recommended it, but yes, just snap off a small chunk and place it somewhere. It might take a few days to sink. Nerites grow slowly so their calcium demands are not very high.
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