Is Fluorite messing with my water?
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Old 08-14-2004, 10:57 PM   #1
Rolo
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Is Fluorite messing with my water?


I am currently in the process of setting up another planted/breeding tank. Three days ago all that was added was fluorite and tapwater.

Tap water parameters (when filling the tank):
KH:18
GH:15
pH:8.2 (rested 24 hours)
CO2:3.4ppm (pH/KH)
PO4:0.1ppm

Tank water parameters:
KH:12
GH:11
pH:7.8
CO2:5.7ppm (pH/KH)
P04:0.1ppm

So with just Fluorite in the tank, the KH dropped 6 degrees and GH dropped 3 degrees. I've made sure my test kits work perfectly fine, so this can't be the problem. It's also advertised that Fluorite won't alter the water parameters. Anyone know what going on or had the same experince?

The pH drop is understandable since the KH dropped, but it fell too much since the CO2 is to high - 5.7ppm. But I'm not worried, yet, that this is a sign of additonal buffers. The PO4 is still 0.1ppm and Fluorite shouldn't be adding any others. The CO2 probably incresed alittle because there is slight surface aggitation from the AC150. I'll cut the motor for 24 hours to see if the pH/CO2 will go back to where they belong (8.0/3.6ppm). If not then it could mean other buffers. .

I'm mostly concerned about the GH and KH though, I was not expecting this at all.
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Old 08-14-2004, 11:18 PM   #2
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BTW, the reason I'm concered about this is because of a substrate war I had before. I bought Profile, put it in the tank, and everything was fine for a while. After a few weeks my PO4 levels suddenly got locked onto 2.4ppm! What happened was that added PO4 would be sucked into the Profile (explains why the PO4 always dropped to 0ppm after every dose) which eventually got saturated, then releached it all back into the water.

I am hoping that the same thing doesn't happen with the KH and GH. I'm planning on using almost pure RO water so to breed some difficult softwater fishes. If the substrates going to raise the KH and GH now...erg .
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Old 08-14-2004, 11:36 PM   #3
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I have a tank with 100% Flourite and has no change in KH. In my other 2 tanks those use Onyx, KH rose about 0.5-1 dKH.
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Old 08-15-2004, 05:28 AM   #4
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To be honest, I don't understand your problems at all. I am using and have used both for years with none of the affects you report, to any water parameters in any way.

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Old 08-15-2004, 02:17 PM   #5
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Flourite does not effect water parameters...

The test results you are getting are normal , the proper way to test your tap water parameters is after it has sat for at least 8-10 hours. Its called "out-gasing" basically...

Some cases are more drastic then others but a false reading is taken when you come straight from the tap.
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Old 08-15-2004, 04:22 PM   #6
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Agree with Buck, but the results reported were more dramatically different than typically seen after out-gassing. No?

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Old 08-15-2004, 07:19 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck
Flourite does not effect water parameters...

The test results you are getting are normal , the proper way to test your tap water parameters is after it has sat for at least 8-10 hours. Its called "out-gasing" basically...

Some cases are more drastic then others but a false reading is taken when you come straight from the tap.
Out gassing the water for several hours has nothing to do with GH or KH, only CO2 and pH. If the GH changes any, or the KH more than 1 degree just by letting the water sit - there's some funky stuff going on. Anyway just to fit the bill Buck, the GH and KH tap water parameters are the same when coming straight out, or after sitting for 24 hours. So the kits are working great!

So am I the first and only person ever to experience parameter changes from Fluorite? djlen is correct, the change in GH and KH is far too much, especially when it says fluorite doesn't affect water parameters.

BTW, I took a sample of water from the tank and rested it for about 24 hours. The pH rose to 8.0 so the extra CO2 in the tank was just do to light surface agaitation.
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Old 08-15-2004, 09:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Out gassing the water for several hours has nothing to do with GH or KH, only CO2 and pH.
...OK

Quote:
So am I the first and only person ever to experience parameter changes from Fluorite?
...Yes
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Old 08-15-2004, 09:18 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck
...OK

...Yes
Lol. Ok, it appears you are telling me something. However, as I said, the parameters of the tap are when the water is throughly out-gassed. The changes in the tank are not from further out gassing or anything of the sort.

Come on, someone else has had to have the same experince I'm going through.

Last edited by Rolo; 08-16-2004 at 03:07 AM..
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Old 08-15-2004, 09:47 PM   #10
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Rolo,
I don't think you're alone. When I did a search (google and askjeeves) on Onyx and its effects to KH, I ran into a few articles or threads those have problem with Flourite and drop in KH. Some of them were quite similar with yours (no wood etc). No explanations though. Even the replies from Seachem denies that Flourite had anything to do with it.

Try do Google search, you'll see a few threads on this.
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Old 08-16-2004, 03:03 PM   #11
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I seemed to have a Kh drop in my 20gallon when I first set it up, using flourite.
A few big water changes fixed all that...then I added fish and plants.
water changes help get rid of the residual cloudiness, which is just dust settling onto the top of the substrate. don't vacuum deep into the substrate, just the surface.
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Old 08-16-2004, 11:20 PM   #12
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Good to hear at least one other who has had the same experience. I did a google on this topic and found only a few more testimonies about fluorite lowering KH.

Malkore - isn't that eco-complete in your 20 gallon?
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Old 08-17-2004, 03:08 PM   #13
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Yep. I had terrible cyano problems in the 20gallon, mostly on the substrate. I decided to swap to eco-complete to see if that'd help.
It didn't...but treating with maricyn did. I do like the eco though...adn eco can add to the buffering of your water if you use the 'liquid amazon' water it's packed in.
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Old 08-19-2004, 05:03 AM   #14
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I setup a very simple experiment, so simple you could laugh but at least it reaches a conclusion. Since most here are saying flourite hasn't changed their water and that I found only a tiny handful of testimonies that fluorite can lower GH and KH, I had to prove it to myself.

With two 20 gallon aquariums, and 2 AC150 filter on each (both with 1 brand new sponge) I put into one tank just plain tap water, and into the other, tap water and brand new flourite. I tested the tap before filling the tanks and after, and confirmed that the parameters where the same during the entire filling process. Even tested both tanks right after filling, and expectedly they had the same parameters.

So then, I let the filters run them for two days and tested them tonight. Here are the parameters:

Tank with Tap Water
pH:8.2
GH:15
KH:21

Tank with Tap Water and Flourite
pH:8.0
GH:10
KH:13

Well there you have it. In rare occasions Flourite will change your water parameters.

What set my case apart for most is that my water is very hard. Carbonates (KH) are not very soluble, and with my high levels to begin with, all I can assume is something in the fluorite percipitated/bonded them out of solution. The Ca++ and Mg++ could have been collected at the CEC spots in fluorite, thus lowering GH.
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Old 08-19-2004, 12:47 PM   #15
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It's very possible that the Flourite has removed some of the mineral from your water. But I would suspect that this is pretty much a one time thing. I suggest you either ask this question on the APD or call Seachem and talk to Dr. Morin about it.
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