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Old 07-31-2004, 05:40 AM   #1
Blade
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Cardinals dropping like flies


I've lost 8 Cardinals in less than 24 hours!. They had what appeared to be ich starting about 4 days ago. I treated that with Maracide and it apppeared the ich cleared fairely quickly. However starting today the fish are very listless hardl swimming much at all. There fins appear to be somewhat ragged but not as though from another fish. The stomachs on some appear to be sort of swollen and white although not dramatically.

I am confident my water quality is good however I have very hard water and it comes with a very high PH around 7.5. I am in the process of lowering the PH and rigth now it is a 7.0. The temp is at 81.
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Old 07-31-2004, 05:51 AM   #2
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Any ammonia or nitrite reading ? What's your GH? I keep them in hardwater (300ppm GH) with no problem althought I inject CO2. If they really need very soft water to live, they will not survive even you lower the pH as the water is actually still hard.

You might buy a bad batch of cardinals. Try getting fish in another lfs,
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Old 08-01-2004, 10:50 PM   #3
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same thing happened to my glo light tetras...i still dont know wat it was. o well, sorry i cant help
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Old 08-01-2004, 11:34 PM   #4
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Is the white kind of opaque? Are teh colours fading quickly on the fish that die quickly? It could be an outbreak of NTD or Columnaris
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Old 08-02-2004, 12:39 AM   #5
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The symptoms do not sound like NTD.

NTD: http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/di...eondisease.htm

Cardinals are immune to NTD.

Cardinals are dicey fish. How long have you had them?

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Old 08-02-2004, 05:41 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momotaro
The symptoms do not sound like NTD.

NTD: http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/di...eondisease.htm

Cardinals are immune to NTD.

Cardinals are dicey fish. How long have you had them?

Mike

About 2 weeks now maybe little less. It looked a lot like ich but it didn't respond to the normal medicine. They are looking better now but I did lose 4-6 more last night depending on what was new and what I just happended to find. I really don't have a clue as to what to do now. I'm just going to make sure the water stays clean and at the right PH and hope for the best at this point. I also lost two Ott's and from what I can tell 3 cherry red shrimp. I would move to them a larger tank I have ready but at this point I wonder if it would do more harm than good as well as possibly bring disease into a new tank.
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Old 08-02-2004, 07:56 AM   #7
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I just saw one of the Cherry Shrimp's! All is not lost and it was nice to finally have some good news
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Old 08-02-2004, 08:00 AM   #8
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And I justfound the other one!
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Old 08-02-2004, 09:03 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDominy
Is the white kind of opaque? Are teh colours fading quickly on the fish that die quickly? It could be an outbreak of NTD or Columnaris

Its a milky white and the fish are dieing quickly when they seem to get "infected"

I medicated with Naladin on Friday nigth and the death rate slowed considerably and they regained some activity. However they aare not schooling much and are not nearly as active as they were.

The redtail shark is looking pale as of today and the nose and mouth area of one of my dwarf chichlids is reddish as if he was exhausted
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Old 08-02-2004, 09:37 AM   #10
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Meds can play hell with tank chemistry which is why I absolutely go to extremes to avoid dumping medicines in my main tank.

From your description, it sounds like a lot of your problems came after you medicated.

Check your NH3/4, NO2 and NO3 levels. The meds may have killed your bacteria and the tank is recycling.

Also, after the recommended treatment with the meds, I would put in some activated carbon for a couple of days and do daily water changes of 20-30% to completely remove any residual medication.

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Old 08-02-2004, 10:08 AM   #11
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I don't really know much to give advice, but are you sure your loss of fish/shrimp is from disease? Could they have been poisoned? Bug spray, glass cleaner, detergent, etc...

Is it possible maybe the tank received an overdose of Maracide? The medication has a strict precaution on dosage. It also has Malachite Green as the primary ingredient from what I understand is what actually kills off any parasites/invertebrates. I assume this wouldn't be very good for the Cherry shrimps in your tank.

I don't want to put my foot in my mouth but could they have died from lack of O2? Wouldn't the temp of 81 degrees in combination with the medication lower the ability of the water to retain oxygen, and assuming its a planted tank there would be minimal water surface agitation and maybe CO2 injection which would increase CO2 levels? My tank has shrimps, cardinals, and cories with similar water parameters to yours, Blade, and I would like to avoid the problem you're having. If you manage to diagnose your problem I would appreciate it if you let us know. Good luck. Hope your fish/tank gets better.
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Old 08-02-2004, 06:26 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustarific
I don't really know much to give advice, but are you sure your loss of fish/shrimp is from disease? Could they have been poisoned? Bug spray, glass cleaner, detergent, etc...

Is it possible maybe the tank received an overdose of Maracide? The medication has a strict precaution on dosage. It also has Malachite Green as the primary ingredient from what I understand is what actually kills off any parasites/invertebrates. I assume this wouldn't be very good for the Cherry shrimps in your tank.

I don't want to put my foot in my mouth but could they have died from lack of O2? Wouldn't the temp of 81 degrees in combination with the medication lower the ability of the water to retain oxygen, and assuming its a planted tank there would be minimal water surface agitation and maybe CO2 injection which would increase CO2 levels? My tank has shrimps, cardinals, and cories with similar water parameters to yours, Blade, and I would like to avoid the problem you're having. If you manage to diagnose your problem I would appreciate it if you let us know. Good luck. Hope your fish/tank gets better.



You know I think you may be right because I also thoght that as well. The behavior of the fish would be consitnent with that. I put a carbon filter on yesterday and have been doing 20-3% water changes everyday. The fish tank as a whole seem to be responding. I also disconnected the CO2 reactor.

Everyone looks much better today. I guess if anything this was a very expensive learning experience.

Oh last night when I was changing the water I found a spot in the tank that due to the aqua scaping acted as a collection point for plant debri. I had collected quite a pile and I wonder if as you said the meds affected the bio bed wcich with this collection of debri could cause problems. I fixed the design flwa and cleaned that area out.
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Old 08-02-2004, 10:21 PM   #13
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Naladin in your planted aquarium? Whoa! You are lucky you didn't wipe out you plants! I think it would be much better to set up a hospital tank and treat the Cardinals in there.

As I said earlier, Cardinals are dicey fish. They are all wild caught, and it seems the majority of them just can't handle the stress of shipment. There is almost always a certain amount of casualties when they are involved.

To have a school of them, you need to build a school of them.

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Old 08-03-2004, 12:03 AM   #14
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Well I guess I have my self to blame I just tested N02 and it read somewhere between .2 and .5. Mind you this is after doing 2 water changes yesterday, 1 on Sat and 1 on Fri. My guess is that as mentioned above the Maracide affected my bacteria bed which caused a spike. I feel really stupid right now.
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Old 08-03-2004, 12:59 AM   #15
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I went and got a better Nitrate tesr kit and after doing a 50% water change the levels now read 0 ppm.
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