I think I'm ready for a planted tank. But I have a few questions...
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:19 PM   #1
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I think I'm ready for a planted tank. But I have a few questions...


I will be setting up ADA's mini M soon and have a few questions for you guys.

1. If there is general rule of thumb 1" of fish per gallon, how come I see dozens of 1"+ fishes in 5 gal tanks on ADA's pictures of the international aquatic plants layout contests and their store? What am I missing?

2. I think I will go with the following plants.
Any specific nutrients from your experience?

Eleocharis parvula
Hemianthus callitrichoides
Hemianthus micranthemoides
E. Tenellus (narrow-leaf) OR Eleocharis Vivipara
Heteranthera zosterifolia

3. What is the best place to but plants online in US?



Your input is greatly appreciated!
I hope to start my mini M journal with your help soon!
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Old 06-16-2009, 11:29 PM   #2
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Welcome aboard and congratulations on the tank. It isn't a hard and fast rule about the 1 inch/gallon just a guideline. Depending on filtration and type of fish you can get away with more. Could you give us a reference or link on the dozens of fish in the ADA's pictures? They maybe smaller than an inch.

I've grown dwarf hair-grass and HM and HC. HM is really easy. HC and dwarf hairgrass prefer higher lights. Follow some basic dosing regimine and start with a good substrate like Aquasoil.

Right here is the best place to buy!

Post your tanks parameters once you know what you have.
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Old 06-16-2009, 11:45 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougiefresh View Post
Welcome aboard and congratulations on the tank. It isn't a hard and fast rule about the 1 inch/gallon just a guideline. Depending on filtration and type of fish you can get away with more. Could you give us a reference or link on the dozens of fish in the ADA's pictures? They maybe smaller than an inch.

I've grown dwarf hair-grass and HM and HC. HM is really easy. HC and dwarf hairgrass prefer higher lights. Follow some basic dosing regimine and start with a good substrate like Aquasoil.

Right here is the best place to buy!

Post your tanks parameters once you know what you have.
Yes, they are mostly small fish, like neons and rasboras. But aslo they have quite a few shrimps with fish too:
http://www.adana-usa.com/images/gallery02/27.jpg
http://www.adana-usa.com/images/gallery02/8.jpg
http://www.adana-usa.com/images/gallery02/10.jpg
http://www.adana-usa.com/images/gallery02/14.jpg
http://www.adana-usa.com/images/gallery02/13.jpg

Ordered Mini M w/ Solar Mini M (27W Twin) and Aquasoil! Also CO2 equipment will be purchased from GLA very soon too.

Right here is the best place to buy!?? Wow, that's great! I just realized you guys have a Swap n Shop section!


Edit: I was planing to have Galaxy Rasboras in my mini M with Red/Balck Crystal shrimps.

Btw, is Eheim Pro 2222 not too much for Mini M tank?

Last edited by Bubba_Shrimp; 06-17-2009 at 05:44 AM..
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Old 06-18-2009, 02:42 AM   #4
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86 views and no responces? Kinda slow...
Am I in the wrong forum?
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Old 06-18-2009, 12:57 PM   #5
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1- It all depends on how much filtration you may have in your tank and plants... if their waste is used up ( as ferts for plants) or filtered out quickly and broken down by the bacteria, you can generally get away with more fish. so the more plants and filtration generally will mean you can have a few more fishes than recommended, just don't go overboard and buy a few big discus ... the fish also want some space to swim around, don't overcrowd because they may feel stressed and die.

2- those plants are great for a small tank like yours and they are fairly easy to keep up with, just remember that the stargrass is very macronutrient hungry plant , which is no problem if you are using ferts, and that it grows VERY quickly, tending to grow upwars not sideways... so you will need to trim it fairly often if you are looking for a foreground coverage. Another plant you might like if you are looking for a background is very the Echinodorus vesuvius, or at least I love the looks of it, specially on smaller tanks.

3- Yes the swap and shop here is awesome.

One thing you didn't say is if you are going to be having a high or low tech... most of the plants you are planning on getting like more the High light and C02 and ferts...


The 2222 is ok, if you think it is disturbing too much the plants you can always turn it down... I'd use the 2213 if you think you may not be replacing/upgrading your tank anytime soon or the 2215 if you think you might switch out for a bigger tank ( up to 30g ) or a 2217 if you think you may end up with a 50-70g tank...
2213 $79 - 116 gph
2215 $120 - 164 gph
2217 $150 - 264 gph
2222 $160 -132 gph

I think the 221* will give you more bang for your buck... and you can always reduce the flow.
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Old 06-18-2009, 07:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShrimpMan View Post
1- It all depends on how much filtration you may have in your tank and plants... if their waste is used up ( as ferts for plants) or filtered out quickly and broken down by the bacteria, you can generally get away with more fish. so the more plants and filtration generally will mean you can have a few more fishes than recommended, just don't go overboard and buy a few big discus ... the fish also want some space to swim around, don't overcrowd because they may feel stressed and die.

2- those plants are great for a small tank like yours and they are fairly easy to keep up with, just remember that the stargrass is very macronutrient hungry plant , which is no problem if you are using ferts, and that it grows VERY quickly, tending to grow upwars not sideways... so you will need to trim it fairly often if you are looking for a foreground coverage. Another plant you might like if you are looking for a background is very the Echinodorus vesuvius, or at least I love the looks of it, specially on smaller tanks.

3- Yes the swap and shop here is awesome.

One thing you didn't say is if you are going to be having a high or low tech... most of the plants you are planning on getting like more the High light and C02 and ferts...


The 2222 is ok, if you think it is disturbing too much the plants you can always turn it down... I'd use the 2213 if you think you may not be replacing/upgrading your tank anytime soon or the 2215 if you think you might switch out for a bigger tank ( up to 30g ) or a 2217 if you think you may end up with a 50-70g tank...
2213 $79 - 116 gph
2215 $120 - 164 gph
2217 $150 - 264 gph
2222 $160 -132 gph

I think the 221* will give you more bang for your buck... and you can always reduce the flow.
Thank you for your comments! I will be using high tech light + pressurized CO2 as well as ferts. Oh, and I already have Eheim Pro 2222… I bought it for $100 when one LFS went out of business. Did not use it yet, but I think I can adjust intake and outtake flows on it. Need to double check.

Btw, any specific suggestions on ferts for my plants selection?


Thank you very much!
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Old 06-19-2009, 11:39 AM   #7
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for the ferts ... do the recommended for 2 or 3 weeks ... if you see the plants melting or going bad, some melting leaf loosing in the first few weeks is very comom, until the pant adapts to your water parameters, than change up a the dosage if needed... sometimes some plants require more macros or micros ... you will find your balance within 2 months, but the recommended is good enough usually
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Old 06-19-2009, 02:38 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by ShrimpMan View Post
for the ferts ... do the recommended for 2 or 3 weeks ... if you see the plants melting or going bad, some melting leaf loosing in the first few weeks is very comom, until the pant adapts to your water parameters, than change up a the dosage if needed... sometimes some plants require more macros or micros ... you will find your balance within 2 months, but the recommended is good enough usually
Ok, but what exactly ferts are recommended for my plant selection?
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Old 06-19-2009, 04:40 PM   #9
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Your fertilization should follow the standard Macro (Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium)and Micro (traces elements).

There are a number of ready made commercial products on the market for all of the above. Pfertz and Seachem for example. These usually come with some type of prearranged dosing schedule. You still need to watch your plants for deficiencies and using these products can get expensive.

You can also buy the dry powdered compounds as well from places http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com

There are a few well knowned types of dosing regimes you can choose from if you make your own fertilizers and there are calculators all over the net to provide you with volumes and mixing ratios.

Some common fert techniques are Estimative Index (EI method) or Perpetual Preservation System (PPS).
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Old 06-20-2009, 04:01 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by gmccreedy View Post
Your fertilization should follow the standard Macro (Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium)and Micro (traces elements).

There are a number of ready made commercial products on the market for all of the above. Pfertz and Seachem for example. These usually come with some type of prearranged dosing schedule. You still need to watch your plants for deficiencies and using these products can get expensive.

You can also buy the dry powdered compounds as well from places http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com

There are a few well knowned types of dosing regimes you can choose from if you make your own fertilizers and there are calculators all over the net to provide you with volumes and mixing ratios.

Some common fert techniques are Estimative Index (EI method) or Perpetual Preservation System (PPS).
Speaking of trace... I was planning on having crystal red shrimps, which I read do not like copper at all.

Is using Seachem Flourish (
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3746+3751+4652&pcatid=4652 ) be safe for CRS? And if so, is it enough to use just Seachem Flourish or I have to get a separate ferts as well?
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Old 06-20-2009, 04:46 AM   #11
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"... one of the most common questions that planted tank enthusiasts ask is if it is safe to fertilize shrimp tanks as most trace element fertilizers contain minute amounts of copper. I have personally used both Seachem Flourish and CSM+B on all of my shrimp tanks and I can guarantee you my shrimp are not adversely affected by these fertilizers. Recently, I have bought chemicals from Greg and mixed my own plant fertilizer solutions, which I am now using to fertilize all of my shrimp tanks and it is working wonderfully. Aside from the fact that there are really minute amounts of heavy metals in our fertilizers, the reason why heavy metals like copper or iron do not affect the shrimp is because fertilizers contain them in their chelated form. Chelated metals are a lot less toxic to living organisms than free metals. In fact, all of the commercial “detoxifiers” that I am aware of use some sort of chelation to “detoxify” heavy metals. Your fertilizers have this detoxification already built in!"
From: http://www.aquaticplantnews.com/apn/...nted-aquarium/

There is 0.0001% Copper in Flourish. A 0.4 mL dosing of Flourish in a 5g is 0.00002% copper. That is a very tiny amount. 0.4 mL is Seachem's recommended dose for a 5g.
calculated using: http://www.fishfriend.com/fertfriend.html
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Old 06-20-2009, 02:29 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Left C View Post
"... one of the most common questions that planted tank enthusiasts ask is if it is safe to fertilize shrimp tanks as most trace element fertilizers contain minute amounts of copper. I have personally used both Seachem Flourish and CSM+B on all of my shrimp tanks and I can guarantee you my shrimp are not adversely affected by these fertilizers. Recently, I have bought chemicals from Greg and mixed my own plant fertilizer solutions, which I am now using to fertilize all of my shrimp tanks and it is working wonderfully. Aside from the fact that there are really minute amounts of heavy metals in our fertilizers, the reason why heavy metals like copper or iron do not affect the shrimp is because fertilizers contain them in their chelated form. Chelated metals are a lot less toxic to living organisms than free metals. In fact, all of the commercial “detoxifiers” that I am aware of use some sort of chelation to “detoxify” heavy metals. Your fertilizers have this detoxification already built in!"
From: http://www.aquaticplantnews.com/apn/...nted-aquarium/

There is 0.0001% Copper in Flourish. A 0.4 mL dosing of Flourish in a 5g is 0.00002% copper. That is a very tiny amount. 0.4 mL is Seachem's recommended dose for a 5g.
calculated using: http://www.fishfriend.com/fertfriend.html
Awesome! Much appreciated!
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Old 06-20-2009, 07:12 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Bubba_Shrimp View Post
Awesome! Much appreciated!
You are very welcome.
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