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Old 12-02-2010, 01:47 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobie832 View Post
The calibration solutions are usless as you used volume/volume. The volume of water will vary based on temp and the spoons of dry ferts can vary due to compaction differences. Any good lab will use weight/weight as they do not change.I suspect your solutions could vary by as much as 20%
If you have a few minutes to make those corrected adjustments please post the results. It will be gratefully received.
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Old 12-02-2010, 06:37 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by dobie832 View Post
The calibration solutions are usless as you used volume/volume. The volume of water will vary based on temp and the spoons of dry ferts can vary due to compaction differences. Any good lab will use weight/weight as they do not change.I suspect your solutions could vary by as much as 20%
Read the first paragraph in: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fe...tml#post800225
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Old 01-30-2011, 04:21 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post
I admit I didn't give any thought to the rest of the world where "cups" and "teaspoons" are not easy to measure. I will leave it to you to enjoy working that out
I did not even have to pull out my calculator, second google hit on "KNO3 reference solution" took me to a page that seems trustworthy enough
http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/reference.htm
Here is a copy and paste from Rex's site (links sometimes change or go dead):

Here's a way to make 10, 20, 30 and 40 ppm NO3 reference solutions:

* Add 1.631 g of KNO3 to 1 L distilled or DI water. This makes a 1000 ppm NO3 solution. (It's really a 1000.29 ppm solution.)
* Add 2 mL of the 1000 ppm solution to 18 mL of distilled or DI water. This makes 20 mL of a 100 ppm NO3 solution.
* Add 15 mL of the 100 ppm solution to 15 mL of distilled or DI water. This makes 30 mL of a 50 ppm NO3 solution.

To make a 10 ppm NO3 solution:
* Add 2 mL of the 50 ppm solution to 8 mL of distilled or DI water. This makes 10 mL of a 10 ppm NO3 solution.

To make a 20 ppm NO3 solution:
* Add 4 mL of the 50 ppm solution to 6 mL of distilled or DI water. This makes 10 mL of a 20 ppm NO3 solution.

To make a 30 ppm NO3 solution:
* Add 6 mL of the 50 ppm solution to 4 mL of distilled or DI water. This makes 10 mL of a 30 ppm NO3 solution.

To make a 40 ppm NO3 solution:
* Add 8 mL of the 50 ppm solution to 2 mL of distilled or DI water. This makes 10 mL of a 40 ppm NO3 solution.


He also explains how to make reference solutions for testing phosphates:

Here's a way to make 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 4.0 and 5.0 ppm PO4 reference solutions:

* Add 1.433 g of KH2PO4 to 1 L distilled or DI water. This makes a 1000 ppm PO4 solution. (It's really a 1000.09 ppm solution.)

To make 10 mL of a 100 ppm PO4 solution:
* Add 1 mL of the 1000 ppm solution to 9 mL of distilled or DI water.

To make 20 mL of a 10 ppm PO4 solution:
* Add 2 mL of the 100 ppm solution to 18 mL of distilled or DI water.

To make a 1.0 ppm PO4 solution:
* Add 1 mL of the 10 ppm solution to 9 mL of distilled or DI water. This makes 10 mL of a 1.0 ppm PO4 solution.

To make a 2.0 ppm PO4 solution:
* Add 2 mL of the 10 ppm solution to 8 mL of distilled or DI water. This makes 10 mL of a 2.0 ppm PO4 solution.

To make a 3.0 ppm PO4 solution:
* Add 3 mL of the 10 ppm solution to 7 mL of distilled or DI water. This makes 10 mL of a 3.0 ppm PO4 solution.

To make a 4.0 ppm PO4 solution:
* Add 4 mL of the 10 ppm solution to 6 mL of distilled or DI water. This makes 10 mL of a 4.0 ppm PO4 solution.

To make a 5.0 ppm PO4 solution:
* Add 5 mL of the 10 ppm solution to 5 mL of distilled or DI water. This makes 10 mL of a 5.0 ppm PO4 solution.
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Old 01-30-2011, 04:42 AM   #34
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There are several posts in forums that tell how to use grams and liters to make reference solutions. My contribution was a way to do well enough using just what an average American kitchen would have - measuring spoons and cups.
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Old 01-30-2011, 06:04 AM   #35
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Yeah, the info is extremely accessible, but hadn't actually made it's way into this thread, which happens to be a sticky on one of the largest planted tank forums out there.

Cups and teaspoons are far more relevant to 90% of the members here, but a couple people had asked about alternative measurements, and I thought it would be a good idea to have both options listed in this one thread.
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Old 06-04-2012, 06:33 PM   #36
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I updated the KH standard solution method here: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fe...tml#post801218
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:27 PM   #37
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Default Newbie issue: Non-standard issue of drop-cheker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post
KH Test Kit
This method, compliments of Cardinal's Keeper (http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/di...-solution.html)
(Note: You will need a whole gallon of distilled water to do this.)
1. Start with 6 cups of distilled water in a clean measuring container
<.... selection deleted for brevity...>
8. To make a 2 dKH solution, mix one cup of the 4 dKH solution with one cup of distilled water.
9. To make a 1 dKH solution, mix one cup of the 2 dKH solution with one cup of distilled water.
Hi all of you, and Hoppy in particular. I am a newbie and want to do CO2 injection in an 80G planted aquarium. I don't want my plants to be completely slow-growing and low-tech, and I don't want them to be growing too vigorously either, as with 30ppm of CO2. [Yeah, I'm that Great Moderation guy! ] So, I'm thinking I'll go for moderation, say about 15ppm of CO2, moderate lighting. I have two questions:

(1) Does this approach seem reasonable, or am I forgetting/ignoring something important?
(2) Now the more "techy" question. MOst standard drop-checkers, set up with 4dKH, turn green at 30ppm. This works fine for those who want to keep their tanks at 30ppm CO2, but it wouldn't work well for me. I need an indicator that'll tell me (say go from blue to green) at 15ppm instead of 30ppm. So, looking at Hoppy's above post, I thought, why don't I make a 2dKH solution to put in the drop checker? The charts [ http://freshwateraquariumplants.com/...xidechart.html ] seem to say that 2dKH will get to pH=6.6 at about 15 ppm instead of 30ppm, so this should work for me, right? All I do is put 2dKH standard solution and a few drops of the indicator into the drop-checker, and voila! I calibrate CO2 to keep the solution green without going blue or yellow, just like everybody else does, but I'm keeping it at 15ppm, not 30ppm, right? What am I missing?

Thanks for your help in advance!

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Old 07-02-2012, 07:25 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by aadro View Post
Hi all of you, and Hoppy in particular. I am a newbie and want to do CO2 injection in an 80G planted aquarium. I don't want my plants to be completely slow-growing and low-tech, and I don't want them to be growing too vigorously either, as with 30ppm of CO2. [Yeah, I'm that Great Moderation guy! ] So, I'm thinking I'll go for moderation, say about 15ppm of CO2, moderate lighting. I have two questions:

(1) Does this approach seem reasonable, or am I forgetting/ignoring something important?
(2) Now the more "techy" question. MOst standard drop-checkers, set up with 4dKH, turn green at 30ppm. This works fine for those who want to keep their tanks at 30ppm CO2, but it wouldn't work well for me. I need an indicator that'll tell me (say go from blue to green) at 15ppm instead of 30ppm. So, looking at Hoppy's above post, I thought, why don't I make a 2dKH solution to put in the drop checker? The charts [ http://freshwateraquariumplants.com/...xidechart.html ] seem to say that 2dKH will get to pH=6.6 at about 15 ppm instead of 30ppm, so this should work for me, right? All I do is put 2dKH standard solution and a few drops of the indicator into the drop-checker, and voila! I calibrate CO2 to keep the solution green without going blue or yellow, just like everybody else does, but I'm keeping it at 15ppm, not 30ppm, right? What am I missing?

Thanks for your help in advance!

-aadro
That would work fine, but keep in mind that a drop checker with 4 dKH fluid will be "green" not at 30 ppm, but at something between about 20 and 40 ppm. There is a lot of built in uncertainty with this method, based on the limits of our eyes in seeing green as a specific color, and on the inaccuracy in measuring pH.

I experimented a lot with using a drop checker where yellow was the indication of the right amount of CO2. This was primarily for DIY CO2, where the battle is about getting enough CO2, not about avoiding too much CO2. I ended up using 1.7 dKH fluid. It worked pretty well for me when I was using it, but making 1.7 dKH fluid is hard to do without starting with a good, known KH solution. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=129720
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Old 07-02-2012, 08:19 PM   #39
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Default Newbie question on non-standard drop-checker use

Thanks Hoppy! That's useful. So, in that case, I'll be even "safer" using my method, so that if I use 2dKH instead of 4dKH, if the solution goes yellow, I'm less likely to overdose with CO2, although I realize from your comment that I am also likely to under-dose! May eventually need a more accurate meter of some sort!

Any ideas from anybody?
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Old 07-02-2012, 08:46 PM   #40
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Default Folloup up to Drop-Checker Question

Apropos above "conversation" between Hoppy & Aadro:

Yup, I think I'm going to get myself two drop-checkers too!
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Old 07-16-2012, 05:04 PM   #41
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I have tried 2 drop checkers numerous times, with various KH fluids in them, hoping that would improve the accuracy. It never did. The basic problem is the difficulty in judging the color of the solution - a slight mistake in judging what is "green" makes a big mistake in the ppm of CO2 you think you have. I ended up the happiest when I used yellow as the desired color, and DIY CO2 so I could be sure I wouldn't ever have too much CO2. Then I just tried to keep the DC color yellow, which was relatively easy.
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:33 PM   #42
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Question: once I have the 4dkh solution here, do I just add to the drop checker or would I add a low PH solution say a drop or 2 to get the Dark Blue color as well into the drop checker and then wait a couple of hrs for correct readings ? I know you mentioned (which makes sense) in regards to "What is Green" to the eye.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post
KH Test Kit
This method, compliments of Cardinal's Keeper (http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/di...-solution.html)
(Note: You will need a whole gallon of distilled water to do this.)
1. Start with 6 cups of distilled water in a clean measuring container
2. Add 1/8 teaspoon Sodium Bicarbonate (baking soda, freshly opened) to the 6 cups of water and mix
3. Pour out 3 cups of this mix and discard
4. Add back 3 cups of distilled water and mix
5. Pour out 3 cups of this mix and discard
6. Add back 3 cups of distilled water and mix
7. Pour out 1 cup of this mix and discard
8. Add back 1 cup of distilled water and mix
7. Water comes out to a 4 dKH solution
8. To make a 2 dKH solution, mix one cup of the 4 dKH solution with one cup of distilled water.
9. To make a 1 dKH solution, mix one cup of the 2 dKH solution with one cup of distilled water.
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:58 PM   #43
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Atmospheric CO2 is enough to make a 4 dKH standard reference solution be dark blue. Adding an acid to lower the pH would only introduce more inaccuracy. The only improvements I know of for drop checkers are:
Use a pH meter instead of the pH reagent.
Improve the time response of the DC by increasing the contact area between the tank water to trapped air, and the trapped air to DC solution, plus reducing the volume of the DC solution.
Both of those improvements are doable if you use a semi-permeable membrane instead of trapped air to separate the tank water from the DC water. But, it isn't an easy design to do, and have it work well.
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:50 PM   #44
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Thanks Hoppy for that info. I just thought I saw a while back you responded to something in regards to this and mentioned about 2-3 drops of PH solution to add. Probably didn't catch it right LOL .. So, I'll just use the made up 4dkh solution and see what kind of readings I get.
Thank you again ....
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:53 PM   #45
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Hoppy, here I found it. Does this sound Familiar ?

First buy or make a 4 dKH standard solution (consisting of distilled water and a tiny bit of baking soda only). There are several ways to make it, including http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fe...tml#post801218

Fill the drop checker bulb about half full of this 4 dKH water, then add 2-3 drops of pH test kit reagent, one that is yellow at low pH and blue at high pH, such as the API pH test kit reagent.
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