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Old 02-17-2009, 06:07 PM   #16
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Uhoh, that's what my algae looked like, I wish you the best of luck. It's the most difficult algae I've ever dealt with, and I think I've had them all except for clado.
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Old 02-17-2009, 06:28 PM   #17
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Yea its pretty gnarly so far. You should see me sterilizing my tools and such between working on tanks. It makes me cringe thinking about getting this in another tank due to cross contamination from me being stupid.
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Old 02-17-2009, 06:35 PM   #18
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What is your injection method for co2, why arent you dosing Nitrate, Potassium and Micros with that kind of light?
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Old 02-18-2009, 02:59 AM   #19
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workn4frags: As far as this having to do with tank maturity my 20 has been set up since Mid-'07 so its settled in pretty good. I think my problem may have started when I added in some boraras 'merah' and lost several of them never to find the bodies. Figured the shrimp would have taken care of them but who knows. That ammonia spike could have been the catalyst.. just as well it could have been any of the number of times that I've ripped up the tank and re-planted. With the height of the tank and plants that don't fare well being trimmed there isn't much way around that sadly.

After talking with Imeridian briefly in the pt chatroom I decided against the blackout for the moment since for him it only worsened the problem. I did however combine a few of the methods in this thread which I started this evening.
Dropped lighting to 5 hours daily
Manual removal of as much as possible.
Cleaned filter pads
80% water change
cranked an airstone up
1ml/g of excel - 20ml for me even though the tank is only probably holding 16 gallons or so
2ml/g of H202 - Stopped at 25ml on this just to be sure, I'll up it tomorrow given no ill effects

During the water change I had to trim back the toninas and replant. I hated to do it but I threw away so many otherwise awesome crowns of belem and fluviatilis but still packed as many back in as I could when replanting.

I'm going to repeat this process for the next 3-4 days and see if that has any impact. Right now the fish are still in the tank but I'm watching closely for any signs of being under duress, they seem fine so far but if anything crops up I have a temporary/hospital up and running already to transfer them over.

At this point I'm not worried about killing the toninas... while it would bite looking at this stuff festering in my tank daily is worse. If I can't get it under control in the next month or so I'll be tearing it down, scraping everything and starting from scratch anyway.

Hope its cool to post my attack and updates in this thread. If one of us hits on something that works it'll make me very happy.
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:20 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmith782 View Post
What is your injection method for co2, why arent you dosing Nitrate, Potassium and Micros with that kind of light?
It is pressurized co2.

It is a new set up and the AquaSoil is still cycling with slight ammonia spikes, I think this is what started the bloom.

I have cut back on the light to 6hrs a day only running all 4 bulbs for 3hrs. I have 20 Amano's coming this weekend and I am thinking of Rosy Barbs.

I did put some infected plants into a nano with Endler's and have seen them picking at it. I would rather have them instead of the Rosy Barbs.
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:42 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJG View Post
After talking with Imeridian briefly in the pt chatroom I decided against the blackout for the moment since for him it only worsened the problem. I did however combine a few of the methods in this thread which I started this evening.
Dropped lighting to 5 hours daily
Manual removal of as much as possible.
Cleaned filter pads
80% water change
cranked an airstone up
1ml/g of excel - 20ml for me even though the tank is only probably holding 16 gallons or so
2ml/g of H202 - Stopped at 25ml on this just to be sure, I'll up it tomorrow given no ill effects

During the water change I had to trim back the toninas and replant. I hated to do it but I threw away so many otherwise awesome crowns of belem and fluviatilis but still packed as many back in as I could when replanting.

I'm going to repeat this process for the next 3-4 days and see if that has any impact. Right now the fish are still in the tank but I'm watching closely for any signs of being under duress, they seem fine so far but if anything crops up I have a temporary/hospital up and running already to transfer them over.

At this point I'm not worried about killing the toninas... while it would bite looking at this stuff festering in my tank daily is worse. If I can't get it under control in the next month or so I'll be tearing it down, scraping everything and starting from scratch anyway.

Hope its cool to post my attack and updates in this thread. If one of us hits on something that works it'll make me very happy.
Why the Airstone?

Please post your results, I would like to find a method of cure for this pain in the **s algae. I just started dosing NPK again and if I notice an increase in the Spiro I will halt it and start up the daily h20 changes again. Along with some of the steps you posted.
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:02 PM   #22
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I think from everything I read the idea is to get the tank a little on the lean side.

The airstone just as a precaution to aerate the water more, I normally run it at night anyway.

Just did the second round of dosing after another 40-50% water change. The stuff definitely looks like it took a hit from the first volley. Its swaying lifeless in the current now and looks much less robust. Decided to back off the H2O2 and only did 20ml this time in addition to 20ml of excel. Will report back again tomorrow.
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:42 PM   #23
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Sounds good, looking fwd to the update.

How do the Tonina's look?
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:58 PM   #24
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Might be too early to tell I think but no visible melting or anything like that. I topped/replanted them right before I started the first major WC which probably wasn't the greatest idea but I only have so much height to work with. I like to keep them from growing funky. Everything looks fine so far even the Fissidens... I'm crossing my fingers.
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Old 02-22-2009, 04:05 PM   #25
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Good news!

The tank has been through 4 treatments since starting the battle on the 17th with one day off in there. One of the spots that had the most outbreak (other than the fissidens) was within a cluster of Lobelia small form, at this point I can barely see any places on the leaves where the stuff used to be. Its almost all gone but I'm going to do a few more treatments this week to try to completely eradicate it.

All fauna were left in the tank while these doses were applied. There didn't seem to be any outward signs of discomfort.
Everything plant wise in the tank is doing great and didn't suffer any kind of ill effects and much the opposite I've seen a boost in healthy growth from all of the excel. These include:
Pogostemon 'erectus' + 'helferi'
Tonina 'belem', 'fluviatilis', and 'lago grande'
Peacock moss
Fissiden Fontanus
Lobelia Cardinalis small form
Lindernia

In fact the only issue I see from all of this chemical warfare is a slight bacterial bloom due to all the water changing. Imeridian's carpet bomb method even though it was born out of his frustration works quite well at least to initially combat this stuff back in place. Only time will tell if the stuff can/will make a comeback.

-----------------------------------------

A few notes that I've learned about this stuff followed by a day by day account of what I did...

From everything I read one of the main triggers for this type is an ammonia spike. Even though my tank has been set up since mid-'07 I did add some Boraras 'merah' to the tank a bit back (prior to having the outbreak) and lost 5-6 of them and never found the bodies. This could have been my trigger. In addition to that after nothing else worked I tore the whole tank down and re-scaped adding back in maybe 3-4 liters of new aquasoil. Obviously adding another ammonia spike to the existing problem only made it worse, even with semi daily water changes to control it as the packaging suggests. If your situation is different (i.e. brand new tank set up, cycling tank with aquasoil) then the main thing to take care of first is the excess ammonia.

All this talk of ammonia and I honestly never tested the tank throughout any of this which is kind of a shame, it would have been nice to know what levels were present. The tank has Gold Rams, shrimp, tetras in it and I never saw any issues with them other than the loss of the boraras (which by the way was only a day or two after initially adding them). I have the feeling that this spike was relatively minor.

-------------------------------------------

While I do not advocate doing this type of chemical warfare on any tank with fish present those that have experienced this type of algae will know that its one of the harder ones to eradicate. After the algae takes hold it likes the same conditions that healthy growing plants do: good ferts, light, CO2, and generous tank flow. From what I've read lowering lighting period/intensity, reduction in dosing, or blackouts alone will not work and will only go to exacerbate the problem greatly. When you have this stuff the only thing saving you from a complete takeover is the presence of a stock of mid-heavily planted healthy growing plants.
Using this method was basically the last stand for me before completely tearing down the tank, nuking everything with bleach, and tossing all plants/hardscape items.

Tank subject:

Mature tank - set up since '07
20G long - containing roughly 16-18 gallons of water after substrate/hardscape
1x65W current PC lighting
XP1 canister
DIY CO2 distributed via glass spiral diffuser (diligently maintained)
ADA AS amazonia

During the method below I have ceased all NPK fertilization and only added macros, ca, and a little epsom salts back in after the water changes to reconstitute our low-0 GH/KH water slightly. I did this as most how-tos I read on removing spirogyra recommended to do so.

Method

Day 1:
Dropped lighting to 5 hours daily
Manual removal of as much as possible.
Cleaned filter pads - generous cleaning of canister while attempting to preserve as much biological filtration as possible
80% water change
cranked an airstone up for the first 24 hours
1ml/g of excel - 20ml for me even though the tank is only probably holding 16 gallons or so
2ml/g of H202 - Stopped at 25ml on this just to be sure, I'll up it tomorrow given no ill effects

24 hours after the initial attack there was no new growth of the algae and the strands that were present had a definite change in texture and health. The remaining strands while still there were swaying in the current much easier than pre-dosing.

Day 2:
50% water change
changed the airstone back to only running during night power cycle
1ml/g of excel - 20ml for me
1ml/g of H202 - Again 20ml for me. Since the initial dosing had such great effect I didn't see the need for doubling the dose especially knowing I was going to continue the process for several weeks.

24 hours after second attack the algae is starting to recede. Strands are roughly half the length of the previous day and still showing the "dead and lifeless" look flowing in the current. No new algae growth.

Day 3:
off

Day 4:
Since things seemed to be progressing I skipped the water change on this day.
1ml/g of excel - 20ml
1ml/g of H202 - 20ml

No new algae growth, still receding.

Day 5:
50% water change
1ml/g of excel - 20ml
1ml/g of H202 - 20ml

No new algae growth, still receding.

Day 6:
That brings us to today which I'm going to be giving the tank a day off to settle a bit.

I plan on repeating the process on MWF until I'm satisfied that I no longer see any new growth. Until then I'll be maintaining the lighting period at 5 hours and will probably begin dosing again at half EI levels to see if this initiates any new algae growth. My main concern at this point is the tennis ball sized growth of Fissidens Fontanus and the fact that the algae had invaded it pretty severely. I imagine if it does crop back up again it'll be there first and I'll have to remove/dispose of that. I'll try to get some comparison pics up of that infected section since we have a good image of the "infected and pre-treated" growth already.

Sorry for the hella long post but I thought it might be beneficial for those who are unfortunately experiencing this stuff.
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Old 02-22-2009, 09:11 PM   #26
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A few pics of the carnage to show the improvements. Keep in mind that I had a pretty major outbreak that if left uncleaned for 48 hours or so would leave columns of this stuff growing up from the most affected areas. I was on/in just about everything.

Pre-treated section


Treated section:


Treated image of the stand of Lobelia, it was almost a ball of algae surrounding all of this to the point where it was almost impossible to manually remove:


Pieces of receding Spirogyra remnants, this is all that remains of the infestation:


I'm hoping that with another week of treatments the tank can be totally free. I'll be keeping this updated for those interested.
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Old 02-25-2009, 05:19 PM   #27
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MrJG,

Thanks for the update, it looks like I will be trying this method on my 40g. I seemed to have slowed down some of it with the blackout but I am starting to see it reappear again.

I will follow your dosing regimen and get post back here also. I need to order some more Excel and get some Peroxide.
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Old 03-03-2009, 05:36 PM   #28
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2 weeks in and the tank is still clean with no sign of re-infestation. I did notice that my peacock moss isn't looking the greatest but it should bounce back, other than that everything else is fine.
I have brought the lighting period back up to 7 hours daily and I'm back to dosing regularly.

Will report on any nastiness returning but it looks promising so far.
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Old 03-03-2009, 05:43 PM   #29
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That is great news, I should have my Excel in the next day or so and will be starting this treatment. I will also post before and after pics, and report any news.
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Old 04-04-2009, 10:25 AM   #30
Ghazanfar Ghori
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Some info that might be helpful.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/al...algae-fun.html
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