Anyone ever use one of these Eheim copies?

[rumples riot]

If you want to buy a Chinese copy, which more than likely does not have all the German gear in it, go right ahead, in a couple of years you will be buying the real thing anyway.

And; incidently Eheim part are all made at the Eheim plant and not anywhere else. They have a high standard to uphold and need to have quality control.

It is like Hilti tools, all are made in Germany and they would not dream of outsourcing to another company in Asia to make their parts. It might be true in the computer world but not in these cases.

It is a total outrage to suggest that the mighty Eheim would allow another company to make one of its parts. In fact I have it on good authority from the reps here that Eheim are aware of the copies floating around and are not happy with other people breaching copyright. That is why they are interested in the Eheim Pimps club and are prepared to encourage our club with a discount system. They are concerned that their good name is being hijacked by poor quality copies, which in the end affects their overall sales.

Go Eheim, and no you cannot be in our club if you have a copy!

Paul

[pineapple]

Nothing risked, nothing gained.

Every company started from a small seed, often, in our modern age, by copying someone elses idea or by licensing an idea in whole or part from another entity, or by manufacturing something for someone else. John P.'s point above is highly relevant.

The quality of various products in places like Taiwan and China are quiet excellent these days (my business has been with China and Taiwan since 1986 and I deal in intellectual property rights, mostly, so I speak from experience).

Very often it is the case that a Chinese or Taiwanese company contacts a rights holder such as Eheim and asks to buy the rights to a model for sale in the Far East. Licensors (holders of the rights) play the game in one of two ways: (a) they deny the sale out of hand in the thought that they can do a better job themselves, which most often is not the case; (b) they sell or license the rights in whole or part with certain limitations.

Possibly companies such as Jebao have some sort of relationship with Eheim.

Andrew Cribb

Andrew Cribb

[SomethingsFishy]

Just for the record, I was joking about the club-thing.

[Rolo]

Originally Posted by George Willms

Let me pose a question to you: Would you buy a Ferrari clone, you know one of those old fieros made to look like a testarossa, and expect it to work like the real thing?

No of course not. Why would anyone pick a fieros clone over an authentic and well crafted Ferrari? That would just be stupid. I believe we all can agree on that, right?

So then, I ask, why are so many making this "cloned" filter live up to an expectation that it has never earned? BOTTOM line, it is NOT an Eheim, just as a Ferrari clone is not the real deal.

Calling it a clone is very misleading. We see this as damaging to Eheim if it is a bad product, or we become unhappy that this filter performed less then dominating superiority. But then again, BOTTOM line, it was never an Eheim. Who here expects that old fieros to run like the real Ferrari? Or why would you tarnish Ferrari b/c the clone was not absolutely amazing?

It is all in the mind. Like seeing the glass half-empty or half-full. Perceive it as a clone, then there are going to be upsets. See this filter as simply the wholly Jaebo brand it is, then we have another Filstar, Via Aqua or any other filter on the market in competition. If it sucks - then it is the Jaebo company that is doing bad - the Eheims will keep rocking!

My point - Just keep the Jaebos and Eheims separate. See them as two completely different brands, well, because they are! Eheim will continue its good reputation and Jaebo will be able to grow without the stigma of a copy. In the end its competiton that is good for all of us. Problem solved!

Thanks George for the leveraging quote to give me a place to start.

[Raul-7]

The new Jebao seems to be taking a shape very similar to the Eheim Ecco...probably not the best series to clone!

I own a Via Aqua and so far, after 5 months, it has been flawless. One thing that makes it superior to any other canister filter is the media capacity it has. Plus, if everyone was going to buy an Eheim how are these companies supposed to make an ends meat and w/out risk-takers how would people know whether this filter is something to look forward to in the future. If people are simply going to be stubborn and just stick to Eheims, then I think they are missing out on the expierence and fun of this hobby.

[John P.]

True, but I paid just marginally more for my Eheim 2213 than I would have for the Jebao that I was considering. The result--silent filtration. Absolutely quiet.

Nice to have choices, though.

[George Willms]

There will always be risk-takers to experiment with the new products. But you can't deny the quality and reliability of Eheim.

[corigan]

Originally Posted by Raul-7

Plus, if everyone was going to buy an Eheim how are these companies supposed to make an ends meat and w/out risk-takers how would people know whether this filter is something to look forward to in the future. If people are simply going to be stubborn and just stick to Eheims, then I think they are missing out on the expierence and fun of this hobby.

I for one do not want to take a risk when I could be buying a lemon. I would rather spend the few extra dollars to get something that I know how it is going to standup/react. That is just my personal stance on things. For instance, if I was going to go buy a car. There are 2 cars sitting there. One is a cadilliac that has a long line of durability and the make/model has been in circulation for awhile. I know what I'm going to get when I buy a cadilliac, a nice luxury mobile. Then sitting next to it is a Fujitihamamamajobo that I have never heard of. Sure it looks exactly like the cadilliac, but how am I supposed to know how it will hold up or what I am getting. I would rather pay the extra money to know what I am getting. Of course I'm not saying people shouldn't be risktakers. Without risktakers we wouldn't have choices. Risktakers today could be pioneers tommarrow. I'm glad there are people out there running these ViaAqua's, Jaebo's, and whatever else clones. In a few years once they have a long running reputation and there have been plenty of risktakers to give us results of their findings of these cannisters, I might consider buying one. For now though I'd rather not pay to gamble on a product. I'd rather just pay a few bucks extra and get something with a proven track record (Eheim Classic Series). I would be really P.O.'d if I bought one of these clones and it broke down, and I had to buy another filter 6 months to a year down the road, and then I had spent more money/time than if I just originally purchased an eheim. I'll pay the extra money now to possibly not have to pay extra money (plus a ton of aggrevation) down the line.

Matt

[Raul-7]

Cars and filters are totally different pieces of machinery, it's like comparing an electric shaver to a submarine. Anyways, when you said a few extra dollars how much is that, say $100, which doesn't define few.

[corigan]

Originally Posted by Raul-7

Cars and filters are totally different pieces of machinery, it's like comparing an electric shaver to a submarine. Anyways, when you said a few extra dollars how much is that, say $100, which doesn't define few.

Sorry my analogy didn't please you, I'll try to help explain it to you. I was using it as a an economic example to show 2 products side by side that look entirely the same. The economic system and clones don't change just because the product lines change. I could have used anything as example. 2 video cards sitting next to each other , 2 strip lights, 2 aquariums, 2 monitors, etc. I was just trying to show just because something looks similiar doesn't mean it is.

As for a few extra dollars, I own 3 eheims (2 2213's and a 2215) and haven't paid over $100 for any of them. The 2215 cost me close to $100. So I wouldn't say a few hundred extra, since I hadn't even paid $100 total for an eheim. Though I am not saying that the bigger pro line isn't expensive, it is. I've come to the conclusion that most things worth buying for an aquarium it doesn't work to well to cut corners and go cheap.

I'm not blaming people for buying cheap knock-offs, or even trying to convince them otherwise. I think it's great people are making cheaper filters that might be as durable as eheims. The key word being "might". Without time to test these filters it's all speculation. I don't like to gamble with my money and that is what I think of clones. Maybe down the line I would be willing to switch to a clone once it's had a proven track record. I'm glad there are people that will take the chance to possibly pave the way to a new mogul in the filtration world. I for one am not one of those people.

In a few years I hope you are still around Raul so you can tell us all how well your Via Aqua has worked for you. I hope others will speak up as well, even 6 month updates would be great. I would be curious to see how well it has stood up to the test of time. I hope it provides you (and everyone else that bought it) great filtration. One thing I want to ask though, since you seem to have such angst against Eheim, what is with the personal vendetta against eheim? Just ticked because of the cost, or just because quite a few hobbyists live by eheims loyally? I can't say I've ever heard anybody complain about eheim except for the cost of things. Can I start complaining about a ferrari too because I think they cost too much? I really don't have much to say about how a ferarri kicks butt, except that they are over my price range, Oh that's right, filters and car's aren't comparable, it's impossible to have a high end and low end product (clone) in each market.

Flattery is the greatest form of imitation, and ViaAqua/Jaebo/other companies didn't decide to clone a fluval. All these companies knew eheim worked well and that is why they have tried to mimic their design.

Matt

[gsd78]

Corigan asked for updates so here ya go...

I've had my Jebao 918 running on a 55gal for 7 months now and have been extremely happy with it. Lots of media capacity and very quiet. For the $68 I spent I couldn't be happier.

[corigan]

Originally Posted by gsd78

Corigan asked for updates so here ya go...

I've had my Jebao 918 running on a 55gal for 7 months now and have been extremely happy with it. Lots of media capacity and very quiet. For the $68 I spent I couldn't be happier.

Great news. Keep us updated with your filter, I hope it keeps providing you with years of great filtration.

Matt