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Old 12-07-2008, 12:22 PM   #1
Craigthor
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ADA Substrate Addatives


Going to be ordering me my Amazonia in the next day or 2 are the substrate additives worth it? Pros and cons of them?

Craig
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Old 12-07-2008, 01:41 PM   #2
roybot73
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I've used Tourmaline BC and Bacter 100 in my last few setups. I can't say for sure if they've actually helped, but they certainly haven't harmed anything either! If you've got the cash, I say go for it. Others will undoubtedly poo-poo their use as an unnecessary expense, or chime in with some other anti ADA voodoo, black magic, blahblahblah comments. Meh -- I say, "to each their own"
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Old 12-07-2008, 06:51 PM   #3
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"To each their own"......... but without a shred of support that the product does anything other than "does no hurt/harm"? Then dimiss those that offer evidence, test, common sense, logic, having used it with and without with ADA AS, actually know what Tourmaline is?

Have you looked up the Tourmaline snake oil sales? Listen to these hucksters:

http://www.ionizers.org/tourmaline.html

How can you fall for this stuff?
"Blah blah" makes far more common sense and logic than what you just said.
Why use common sense or logic if that's how you think we should approach things? Good grief.

Tourmaline is not bioavailable in the least to plants, it's like saying SiO2, aka....."glass" is a bioavailable form of O2 for fish or us. It can have all these minerals, but that does not imply or mean they are nutrients for plants in the Crystal form.

Penac? Don't get me started.

I am a supporter of ADA aqua soil however, so it's not "anti ADA" in the least........ AS has a lot more nutrients and they are in such a form they will provide longer term results/sources for nutrients. So it's not some knee jerk thing either, nor something I have NOT tried with and without either. If you have not tried it with and without, using ADA AS, you really do not know(this applies to myself and anyone).

Bacteria and clarifyers are hardly new items being sold for aquariums and for a lot less. If you add lots of plants from day one, they have a lot of bacteria on them and particularly the roots, as well as adding old dirty sponges, media etc from an old mature filter or sediment to the new tank. Search Mulm. This adds live bacteria that are active and precisely what is missing from a new sediment.

Alum(aluminum sulfate) is a common clarifyer, 2-3 $ buys 5lbs at a garden center, which will last you a few decades or more.

It's your money to waste as you see fit, I want something a bit more out my $ however. Faith alone is not enough. I need to see results, see something asethetic(Power sand is not), like the Aqariums are really nice, glassware etc, lights, ADA aqua soil and so forth. Those items are nice, some of the other stuff is no better than the snake oil marketing , but no matter what, each product in any brand name line up needs looked at, evaluated fairly......not just assuming that the whole line is good, give them a blank check and we should not question it and look into it farther.

That's the real issue here. Does not matter if it's Dupla, ADA, Seachem, Bubba Joe's Plant Tonic..........there needs to be some evaluation.

Regards,
Tom Barr


PS, wanna buy some Hydrilla diet and virility pills?
Same type of thinking:
http://www.pureprescriptions.com/pro...roductsID=439#

There's never been a single human nutrition study done on Hydrilla BTW

Folks fall for this stuff all the time and spend billions..........
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Old 12-07-2008, 06:56 PM   #4
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Thanks Tom,

I didn't actually order any of it. I just got my order in for 9l of Amazonia, 3l Amazonia Powder, 5mm glass thermometer, and some 13mm clear tubing as it is out locally and drsfands was out when I ordered my 2213.

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Old 12-07-2008, 07:09 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigthor View Post
Thanks Tom,

I didn't actually order any of it. I just got my order in for 9l of Amazonia, 3l Amazonia Powder, 5mm glass thermometer, and some 13mm clear tubing as it is out locally and drsfands was out when I ordered my 2213.

Craig
You will not go wrong. I really like the ADA AS. The powder was a bit messy for me(a bit too light weight for my taste, goes all over unless pretty careful), I can still lightly or deep vacuum the medium size and it does not move around much.

Add some mture bacteria from another filter, etc prior to use, also see the DSM for estblishing the tank prior to filling, makes the start up much easier and the bacteria are well established(you can cycle the Filter in a small bucket and use the fishless cycling method in the bucket only while the DSM is on going). This works very well and take a bit more patience, but well worht the results.

Search DSM here.

Also, use less, not more light, plant very heavy from the start.
Add ferts consistently and as always..........be crazed about makign sure there's good stable CO2(less light will make that easier).


Regards,
Tom Barr
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Old 12-07-2008, 09:49 PM   #6
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With all due respect, Mr. Barr --

The only point I was trying to make is that I've used these products in my aquaria, and while I don't have any scientific proof of their benefit, they have not hurt anything. Joke's on me, I guess. I fell victim to their marketing and I'm out a whopping $36 because of it. I did not unequivocally and wholeheartedly recommend their use.

If it bothers you that much that there is no scientific proof of their benefit, or instance of harm, I'm sorry. Different people view this hobby from different viewpoints.
"To each his own". If the OP was willing to spend all that money for a full-on ADA mini setup, what's the big deal in adding the extra bells and whistles, even if that's all they are?

I very much respect your wealth of knowledge and years of experience in this field. I've learned quite a bit from your articles (and your rants as well) I take in information and set about things in a way that I ultimately see fit. Sure, I've made mistakes along the way. Sometimes I learn the hard way. Did I make a mistake in using these products? I don't think so. Did I spend money unnecessarily? More than likely. Am I bothered by it? Not in the least.
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