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Old 04-27-2004, 03:59 PM   #31
newkidvoodoo
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i knew this was going to start a war, but whatever, i'll play along (incidentally, that's what i say to myself when some guy in a camaro/mustang/or any other "american muscle" car starts flexing on me at a stoplight). first of all, i am not a professional race car driver, and i have never been to the drag strip with my WRX. all i can say is that on more than 10 occasions, i have humiliated said "american muscle" cars at various stoplights around town. owners of cars with relatively high horsepower ratings tend to assume that horsepower is all that is functioning in a dragrace. i will admit that my car is not completely stock, but i doubt my boost controller is really accounting for all that much. i grew up in a muscle car family, and for a long time i though there was "no replacement for displacement", i have found this to be totally, and completely false.
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Old 04-27-2004, 11:09 PM   #32
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The subie may have less horsepower, but it is also smaller and has awd, allowing for a better launch. They can easily hit 60 in under 6 seconds stock, so if it's lightly modded, it's entirely possible.
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Old 04-28-2004, 02:25 AM   #33
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Well, both cars produce similar stats 0-60 and 1/4 mile... I would guess the suby might have the advantage out of the whole, but I would put my money on the Camaro/Firebird at the end of the 1/4 mile.... But it probably would be determined by driver skill anyway, I suspect the suby is a little easyer to drive. Just punch it and go, where there is some skill required to keep the camaro hooked up under a hard launch.....

Personally I would take the f-body any day.... Pop the t-tops out, listen to that american V-8 rumble as you drift it sideways around a corner, tires a smoking...... I have goose bumps...


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Old 04-28-2004, 04:12 AM   #34
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And then George goes flying by you on the curve with his windows down and Nine Inch Nails pumping!
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Old 04-28-2004, 11:57 AM   #35
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Personally I would take the f-body any day.... Pop the t-tops out, listen to that american V-8 rumble as you drift it sideways around a corner, tires a smoking...... I have goose bumps...
yeah, i am with you on that one... i miss the sound of the v8. i had a 91 camaro when i was younger, and my last car before the WRX was a 85 corvette. the subaru sounds like a vacuum cleaner.

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I would put my money on the Camaro/Firebird at the end of the 1/4 mile.... But it probably would be determined by driver skill anyway, I suspect the suby is a little easyer to drive.
actually, i would have to say that the WRX has been one of the more difficult cars for me to drive fast. keeping the RPMs in the right place to optimize the boost from the turbo can be difficult, and the stock transmission is not very good. it's the next thing i'm upgrading. not an easy car to drive at all.
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Old 04-28-2004, 02:30 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newkidvoodoo
i knew this was going to start a war, but whatever, i'll play along (incidentally, that's what i say to myself when some guy in a camaro/mustang/or any other "american muscle" car starts flexing on me at a stoplight). first of all, i am not a professional race car driver, and i have never been to the drag strip with my WRX. all i can say is that on more than 10 occasions, i have humiliated said "american muscle" cars at various stoplights around town. owners of cars with relatively high horsepower ratings tend to assume that horsepower is all that is functioning in a dragrace. i will admit that my car is not completely stock, but i doubt my boost controller is really accounting for all that much. i grew up in a muscle car family, and for a long time i though there was "no replacement for displacement", i have found this to be totally, and completely false.
Let's keep this generic wild speculation to a minimum, guys. Keep it to the facts. Bottom line is performance comparison is a black art. Just about any car can beat another one at one time or another. I've outrun several LT1 F-Bodies on the street in my 225hp 1998 Mustang GT. Is my car faster? Nope. I just won that particular race.
And I've been beaten by slower cars because of driver error plenty of times. There is a Celica GTS out there that thinks he's the man for beating a Mustang because I didn't adjust my clutch properly and slipped it throughout 1st and 2nd gear. The street is full of dust and oil, especially at intersections. And even if you are on a prepared track, the faster car won't always win.

Just quite making wild assumptions about other people and this discussion will remain civil. What do I mean by assumptions?

- owners of cars with relatively high horsepower ratings tend to assume that horsepower is all that is functioning in a dragrace.
- for a long time i though there was "no replacement for displacement", i have found this to be totally, and completely false.
- "american muscle"

I'm not being condescending towards your choice of automobile and I expect you to maintain the same standards of respect on this board.
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Old 04-28-2004, 02:38 PM   #37
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Sorry Sam ops: ops: I didnt mean any disrespect... Just love talkin cars and planted tanks....



George, Yep those Honda's/acuras are cool, i have freind with a modified Si civic... The car is a blast to drive, reminds me of a go cart.. Handles like it is on rails....

Newkid, No disrespect to your ride either. I like everything with wheels. I am a true enthusiast.... I think suby has a great idea and I like the rally look of there cars.... With the right mods you have corvette eater on your hands... Got any pics!


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Old 04-28-2004, 03:09 PM   #38
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Firstly, I wasn't trying to start a war whatsoever. Just a little friendly smack-talk between two racers. I was nothing but respectful, and quite playful about it as well.

Secondly, I am very aware how important driver skill is in racing. I've been racing for more than 6 years on the strip, and have been featured on Speedvision doing just that. I'm no newbie at this, and I know what I'm talking about.

Skill is important, but so are the numbers. There are also tons of other factors that calculate in such as launch, tire spin, track temps, humidity, etc.

All the same, I suppose I would have to know what modifications the Subie has in order to consider the claims of waxing new Camaros every single week more believable. Not saying it wasn't done, but I'd like to see some evidence. No disrespect intended.
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Old 04-28-2004, 03:12 PM   #39
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Well put Sam!
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Old 04-28-2004, 03:32 PM   #40
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i meant absolutely no disrespect. i apologize if anyone took any of my comments in that way. i was only trying to interject that it's not just the big displacement guys (and girls) who can run with the best of them. i will second what Celura said about "friendly smack talk". i thought all was taken with a tongue in cheek. racing is all about finding out who is faster, and there is often a little bit of bravado involved with that endeavour. i haven't got a shred of proof as to my beating camaros and mustangs at stoplights, but i will tell you that it HAS happened. on the other hand, my car cost a lot more than most of those cars, and if an equal amount were spent on said camaros and mustangs, i firmly believe the advantage would go to the pony cars. anyway... i'm done now, i'll try to tone it down in the future.
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Old 04-28-2004, 04:35 PM   #41
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...And all I did was ask about freaking sythetic oil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 04-28-2004, 05:27 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newkidvoodoo
i meant absolutely no disrespect. i apologize if anyone took any of my comments in that way. i was only trying to interject that it's not just the big displacement guys (and girls) who can run with the best of them. i will second what Celura said about "friendly smack talk". i thought all was taken with a tongue in cheek. racing is all about finding out who is faster, and there is often a little bit of bravado involved with that endeavour. i haven't got a shred of proof as to my beating camaros and mustangs at stoplights, but i will tell you that it HAS happened. on the other hand, my car cost a lot more than most of those cars, and if an equal amount were spent on said camaros and mustangs, i firmly believe the advantage would go to the pony cars. anyway... i'm done now, i'll try to tone it down in the future.
I have many import friends my car could only ever glimpse the taillights of, so I know all too well imports can be just as if not more impressive than domestics from time to time.

I'd still love to run you. 8)
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Old 04-28-2004, 08:39 PM   #43
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I've come to find out after years of stoplight encounters as well as drag strip smack talk that it's always a case of nice car, bad driver. In this case i don't mean bad driver as in one with poor driving skills, but rather bad driver as in a person who is cocky, arrogant, ignorant and just outright an ass.

It's a driver's attitude that always ruins it for me. I've pulled next to some real winners in my time. Guys in any nice car you can think of and everyone in a BMW j/k. They think their poo don't stink and talk the biggest trash.

Here's an example using the Subaru WRX. Now i love this car. I test drove one with the hopes of getting m sister to buy one (i myself could never own one) but i absolutely had a blast driving it and respect the potential. I also have enough expeirence racing them to know that off the line they haul due to AWD and light weight but from a light roll i can really put some carlenghts on them. At a roll from higher MPH, they do have the HP to keep up.

When the WRX was still brand new, i pulled next to one on the road. It was scooby blue and pretty sweet looking. I was checking it out and about to ask the driver a couple questions when he said something along the lines of "I could beat you without even trying". Now i was shocked. I was about to toss the guy a compliment and he came out talking like that. I didn't even race the guy, i just shook my head and drove off normally.

I get the same deal while waiting in the pits at New England Dragway. Some people act like real hot shots. The worst time was when i went about 2 summers ago. I was lined up to race a Honda Civic Del Sol and we were waiting for the other staging lanes to clear out. Kid asked me what i was running so i casually told him 14.4's. He started joking to his friends RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME that he was gonna smoke me. Now this kid had his hook open and he had all this aftermarket crap under there and his lap-top sitting on the passenger seat. He prob had 4000-5000 under the hood on top of the car. Meanwhile my Mustang was pretty much stock. Anyway we raced and to make a long story short i went 14.1 that run and he ran 14.7. Right after the race he lined up behind me in the pits again and accused me off whimping out and using nitrous. He actually made a big scene about it. I was shocked and told him it was stock. He didn't beleive me at all and still made a stink with his buddies. Whatever

I have dozens and dozens of stories like that. Some are morons in muscle cars, sore are in imports. But anyway i kinda tend to feel bad when i see a nice car with one of these ignorant people driving them. Sad thing is, there are so many.
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Old 04-29-2004, 12:10 AM   #44
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i really hope you guys don't think i am one of these people described in the last post (i don't feel that was implied however), because let me tell you, nothing could be further from the truth. i guess i really came off like an ass with my posts, and i just want to say that that was NOT my intention. i am familiar with these people, and i'm not one of them. in fact, these are the exact drivers who pull up to me at a stoplight and start revving their engines, most likely. my car has gotten so much press, that everybody with a sports car wants a piece of me at a red light. i play along sometimes, and sometimes i get handed my hat. i thought i was buying a sensible, "sporty" car. i had no idea i was making myself a target. at the end of the day though, i still have to smile a little...
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Old 04-29-2004, 07:10 PM   #45
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It's cool, newkid. Just give people the proper respect and no one can have any beef with you. Your post just came across as condescending, which generally incites arguments so I thought I'd nip it in the bud. You might not like domestic cars or V8's, but somebody else does. I think you've gotten the idea, though.
Believe me, I can sympathize with being made a target. I bought my first Mustang because parts were readily accessible and I wanted to do some wrenching. Little did I know what I was getting myself into. The Mustang seems to be the car to beat and I find myself defending the marque far more often than I really want to. It just irks me to see ignorance and propaganda spread about the car when the rumors simply aren't true. I'm sure you get a lot of the same thing in your WRX.

Sorry about hijacking your Synthetic Oil thread, Scorpion! Car Talk can be just as sticky as Religion or Politics!
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