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Old 07-30-2014, 09:06 PM   #16
Leaky Filter
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Originally Posted by LittleMissEmily View Post
I'll keep an eye on it, and if I notice any significant changes, I'll do something to fix it. Whether that be take the rocks out and get different ones or just replace them with more driftwood.

If the rock does change my pH is there anything I can add to make it more stable? Like a product of some kind?
Sadly, there isn't a product that will significantly lower or stabilize your water. There are several products that make claims that they can lower ph or soften water, but they tend to be snake oil. Raising your ph and hardness is easy. Baking soda can work just fine. But lowering your hardness is a different challenge.

You may read about reverse osmosis or RO units that create pure water. All a RO unit is is a series of filters that remove the dissolved solids in your water. Pure water is supposed to be neutral, but it will have a ph reading that is below 7.0. It has to do with CO2.

In any event, your fish, and to some extent your plants will do better with a stable ph and hardness. That's why you should try and avoid compounds or minerals that drastically alter it one way or another. Again, the ph swing from your driftwood won't be too severe (usually) and it will diminish over time. You could wind up fighting the rock, however.

Last edited by Leaky Filter; 07-30-2014 at 09:51 PM.. Reason: Clarification
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Old 07-30-2014, 09:11 PM   #17
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Sadly, there isn't a product that will significantly lower or stabilize your water. There are several products that make claims that they can lower ph or soften water, but they tend to be snake oil.
That's a bold claim. What's the explanation? pH down products are typically made with bisulfates, which are acidic. Adding acid to a solution lowers pH. Pretty cut and dry.

And no, pure water has a pH of 7. Water exposed to atmospheric gasses is acidic.

I'm going to go ahead and say you're wrong. Claiming that acids dropped in tank water won't lower the pH is just beyond absurd.

Last edited by BrownCow; 07-30-2014 at 09:23 PM.. Reason: .
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Old 07-30-2014, 09:49 PM   #18
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That's a bold claim.

"I'm going to go ahead and say you're wrong. Claiming that acids dropped in tank water won't lower the pH is just beyond absurd.
"

Very obviously spoken by a person who has never used one of these products.
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Old 07-30-2014, 09:51 PM   #19
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"

Very obviously spoken by a person who has never used one of these products.
It's math. It's chemistry. Personal anecdotes are irrelevant. There is no way for an acid salt dropped in basic solution to not lower the pH unless buffered by contaminants or other products. Regardless of how much personal experience some of you have, you seem to lack basic scientific education.

NaHSO4 + H2O = NaCL + H2SO4

This is high school chemistry. A product like seachem acid buffer turns into sulfuric acid when it hits the water. Sulfuric acid is used by water treatment plants and in irrigation systems to correct pH.

Last edited by somewhatshocked; 07-30-2014 at 10:03 PM.. Reason: Don't insult other members
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Old 07-30-2014, 09:57 PM   #20
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Let's remember to keep it friendly.

Many products that add acids or bases to the water to alter parameters are pretty much frowned upon in the planted tank hobby because they're temporary, can cause harm to livestock if params aren't alterered slowly and can even melt plants. And, currently, a ton of planted tankers use buffering substrates that could impact the way products like that work.

As others have suggested, if rock or hardscape are altering your parameters, there's not a lot you can do but swap them out. (If it's a concern or happens quickly)
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Old 07-30-2014, 10:05 PM   #21
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I'll say it one last time since several of you think it's acceptable to be complete jerks:

STOP INSULTING OTHER MEMBERS!

Keep it friendly. If you don't like someone, add them to your ignore list.

If you think someone is wrong or mistaken? Find a way to tell them without causing a riot.

The moderation team won't clean this thread up again without handing out suspensions and permanent bans.
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Old 07-31-2014, 01:09 AM   #22
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Didn't mean to cause such a debate! Sorry guys.

I would rather not have to add any products other than fertilizer etc to my tank so if the rock does cause some changes, I'll remove it. So far the pH is measuring right around 7.2-7.5. I will hopefully be adding some plants and "test fish" to start the cycle this weekend.

Thanks for the help and sorry to have caused a fight!
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Old 07-31-2014, 01:23 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleMissEmily View Post
I'll keep an eye on it, and if I notice any significant changes, I'll do something to fix it. Whether that be take the rocks out and get different ones or just replace them with more driftwood.

If the rock does change my pH is there anything I can add to make it more stable? Like a product of some kind?
Hi! Just a suggestion. Before you add any sort of rock or stone to your rank, Do a simple fizz test. Just pour vinegar and the rock, if it fizzes, it will change something in your tank, if it doesn't you're good to go. Just wash the vinegar off before adding the item in your tank.
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Old 08-02-2014, 11:50 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleMissEmily View Post
Didn't mean to cause such a debate! Sorry guys.

I would rather not have to add any products other than fertilizer etc to my tank so if the rock does cause some changes, I'll remove it. So far the pH is measuring right around 7.2-7.5. I will hopefully be adding some plants and "test fish" to start the cycle this weekend.

Thanks for the help and sorry to have caused a fight!
Debates are going to happen on the net reguardless. They can even be insightful so long as they don't break down into infighting. When they do that the combatants just get insufferable.

On to the subject about water softners, what Leaky Filter said IMO is true. Years ago when I first got into this hobby I tried (in vain) to adjust my waters PH level with liquids, peat moss, and even a "water softing pillow". While these products DID lower the PH value of my tank in the short term the change was never perminate. All it would take was 1 water change and the PH value of the tank would SHOOT back up. This up and down bouncing effect stresses the fish and can kill them. Most fish, most fish we buy here in the states are tank raised in water with a PH range from 7.0 to 7.4 from what I've seen over the years, so fish raised & plants grown and sold here in the US for the most part will do just fine in reguards to this 1 aspect of your water chemestry.

I would however keep a close watch your PH values for a while, if that stone you've choosen (which looks cool as heck BTW) is one that alters your water chemestry you'll want to get it out ASAP.

Good luck with the new tank
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Old 08-03-2014, 02:37 AM   #25
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Thanks for the good info! I did a water change and tested it a couple days ago and all the levels seem fine. I'm on my phone right now so I will post a picture of my results when I get home.
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Old 08-03-2014, 02:42 AM   #26
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Angelfish will get too big for that tank - angels can get very large. Discus will get too big and are very difficult to keep. Don't get tiger barbs because they are total dicks - I had them once and they were awful so I returned them all a month later.

Look into fish like dwarf gourami, cory catfish, rasboras etc...

On the PH note I have never owned an RO unit so I can't give input there. Things will either be able to survive in your water or not. Large swings in PH will cause bad things to happen so if you are constantly treating your water it can become dangerous.

7.2 - 7.5 will probably work fine, mine is higher than that and my fish have been all set for years.
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Old 08-04-2014, 09:01 PM   #27
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As stated before, I plan to get a much larger tank in about 4-5 months (we will be moving into a house then so I'll have much more room) and the Angel Fish will be moved into that tank. As I also stated above after it was advised to not get Tiger Barbs my list of fish in this tank will be: 6 Red Minor Tetras, 2 Electric Blue Rams, and 2 Angel Fish.

Here is a picture that I promised I would post. This was done before my water change, after the rocks and wood have been in the tank for a couple of days.


Here is the test I did today. It's hard to tell exactly where the pH is at because the reflection of the light is right on the 7.2 mark, which is where the pH is at currently. My water is slowly turning more and more yellow and I'm hoping that when my light finally gets here and I am able to put in plants and my starter fish that it will help with that. It's also a little deceiving because our walls aren't exactly white, so the tint it makes isn't 100% accurate.


Looks like all I'm waiting on now is my light to get here so I can plant and stock right? (Go Amazon, go!)
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Old 08-04-2014, 11:14 PM   #28
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I like the scape so far, looking forward to seeing it come together.
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Old 08-05-2014, 04:51 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleMissEmily View Post
As stated before, I plan to get a much larger tank in about 4-5 months (we will be moving into a house then so I'll have much more room) and the Angel Fish will be moved into that tank. As I also stated above after it was advised to not get Tiger Barbs my list of fish in this tank will be: 6 Red Minor Tetras, 2 Electric Blue Rams, and 2 Angel Fish.
Buying just 2 angels can lead to potential fish fights, unless you buy a mated pair. Angels should be bought in groups of (IMO) no less than 5 and the more the better. This spreds out the bullying that is going to happen. With just 2 one will most likely kill the other, OR the resulting agression will force you to seperate the 2 in diffrent tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleMissEmily View Post
Here is a picture that I promised I would post. This was done before my water change, after the rocks and wood have been in the tank for a couple of days.


Here is the test I did today. It's hard to tell exactly where the pH is at because the reflection of the light is right on the 7.2 mark, which is where the pH is at currently. My water is slowly turning more and more yellow and I'm hoping that when my light finally gets here and I am able to put in plants and my starter fish that it will help with that. It's also a little deceiving because our walls aren't exactly white, so the tint it makes isn't 100% accurate.


Looks like all I'm waiting on now is my light to get here so I can plant and stock right? (Go Amazon, go!)
Ditch the strips, they are notoriously inaccurat. Get you one of these.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...54&pcatid=4454
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Old 08-06-2014, 06:57 AM   #30
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Would 3 Angels be ok? I don't want to add too many to this tank to keep it from being overcrowded, so I'm afraid of adding more than that. I could however do away with the Tetras, and just do a big school if Angels with my Blue Rams...hmmmm. Decisions decisions! Lol
Also I will be buying one of those test kits in the future...just went with the basic strips for now.
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